July 12, 2021

Brendan Donohue | The Transformational Power of E-Sports

Brendan Donohue | The Transformational Power of E-Sports

Brendan Donohue is the President of the NBA 2k League, an official esports league featuring 23 teams. Take a listen to industry-renowned Brendan has he opens the doors to the transformative world of esports and how it's currently changing lives al...

Brendan Donohue is the President of the NBA 2k League, an official esports league featuring 23 teams. Take a listen to industry-renowned Brendan has he opens the doors to the transformative world of esports and how it's currently changing lives all over the world. 


Visit the NBA 2K League's website to watch, listen and learn about the players and their sport | https://2kleague.nba.com


Follow Brendan Donohue on Twitter | https://twitter.com/2kleaguemd


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Selena Soo_ How an Introvert Impacts Millions.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Selena Soo_ How an Introvert Impacts Millions.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.


I don't want to pretend that I'm like yeah this charismatic I'm definitely. I mean yeah obviously maybe there's times that overall you know I am an intruder I am naturally shy. And yeah I love people and I love helping them and bringing them together. And so for me it's like I'm really fueled by ideas and possibilities. So the people I'm inspired by are the people that have ideas that could change the world the people who don't know I can just get behind their message and love what they're about. So it's not like oh I want to be around all these people. I mean I personally prefer to just talk to people one on one or over email them in a group even like a three person group feels like too much for me sometimes.


So you know I don't think I mean I think that you know a lot of really love my relationship building has come through one on one connection you know so maybe I'll meet someone in a group and I meet separately one or maybe I'll be curating the group. And that really helps me because I'm like deciding who is coming to this. You know I already know who's going to be in the room. I get to pick the environment the food the everything. And there's naturally so many things that talk about you now because you know you're the host of the event. So that has definitely helped me. But it is I mean even I think it's kind of a weird thing because I'm Tasman's situations and I'm like Yo really uncomfortable and yet this is what I do and I also know that. You know in certain ways like I'm extremely good at it. And then there's other ways right.

The like it's you know it's still hard for me.

And this is the unmistakable creative part where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who started movements built thriving businesses written bestselling books and created insanely interesting. For more check out our 500 episode archive unmistakable

Suite. Welcome to domestic McCreanor. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Thanks for having me here. It is very cool to have you here. You've been long requested as a guest and you also have been a referral source for many of our guests because many of our last few deaths over the last couple of months have all been clients of yours. But before we get into the work that you do I wanted to start by asking you which of your two parents were you closest to and why. And what impact has that ended up having on your life.

Sure. So the parent and I'm closest to is definitely my mom. My mom was a stay at home mom and you know my dad was an entrepreneur. He was always very busy. My mom had this big interest in spirituality and personal development. I got exposed to some of these ideas a young age and it's interesting because today so much of my work is around promoting and elevating these leaders these experts authors coaches and you know some of the people that I promote today are people whose newsletters she's on whose books she read. So it's a pretty cool thing.

So one of the things that I'm always intrigued by is when people are exposed to this kind of information had such an early age does the perception and the value of what you're getting for me exposes change with age. Like does it differ. Did you realize at the time when you were that young that this is profoundly life transforming.

Yeah I do think how it's changed now is that you know it's one of the most important ideas it's just about you know sometimes delivering in a different way. It's not like everything needs to be like brand new. Like reinventing the wheel for it to be exciting. But for me you know it's really more interested in like the personality behind the message and the branding. And you know I feel like you know ogress and something like live your life people are like oh my gosh it's so amazing. Right. But if some random person that you didn't know was a site Live Your that's like you're like oh whatever you ignore it. Right. So you know there are certain people where you follow their personal story their brand their personality and that's what really gets you like hot on the message and you know inspires you to transform. So yeah I mean I really pay attention to the personality behind the message.

And we'll come back to that and talk about how people actually do that but who are the people that influenced you and set you on this path.


You know my biggest inspiration is I would say Harbury for Leo. DANIEL HOARE And Bellizzi and interestingly these were three of the people that encouraged me and believed in me so that so much that I started my own business. So you know gosh there's. I would say it the way this really big. Whereas when I was in business school you and I was walking home from a summer internship. And I saw red meat safety on the street and he was my favorite logger you know named Ratner's. I thought his scores and I was honest with my mom and I was like No I got to go. And I remember being so excited you know going up to him and he was wearing glasses and he was in flip flops was lying his parents into a car and I just started talking to him and he was kind of surprised because his average reader is like this you know like a dorky like 20 year old guy and I was like this kind of lively girl who would come out of nowhere. And I knew all his stop and his thoughts and everything and he was like oh we just got back from a cruise with my sisters made here. And I was like a new image just sort of like oh yeah I know you have two sisters and she was like How do you know that.

And I was like because in your book and Chapter 7 on savings you talk to both East Coast and West Coast Weddings and you're like oh my god you're such a stalker. And that's kind of how our friendship began. And he was hosting a local Mure meet. And so I would just show up. You know I was on the news lateralis I showed up and they started becoming friends with you know people at those meet ups including his friends I didn't help her. And so I feel like you know the start of my relationship with Remi and Derek and all these other people is actually me being a superfan and being really interested in their work. And you know a lot of people think that it's bad to be a super paniolo see like oh I don't want you know for someone to think I'm just like a girl or a fanboy but honestly like you know I am a super fan. Like many of my friends and colleagues and mentors I think it's a good thing. There's a saying that I really love which is. You know the moment you put someone on a pedestal the moment they start looking down on you.

And so with a super bowl it's not about like you putting someone up on a pedestal and thinking that they're better than you. And like you had nothing to offer. But it's like you can admire them and look after them but you also recognize your own value. But I think the mistake people make when trying to build relationships with the people they admire is they can approach them and their internal dialogue is you know this person is so amazing. They've got everything right. Why would they even want to know. Mean I'm just wasting their time. You know I'm nothing I've got nothing to offer. Yes some kind of aversion and then when you approach those influencers there's like this weird energetic dynamic. And I think for me you know I think I'm at the same level as those people that I just know that you know I just want to help the people I admire because I'm so inspired by them. And when you're coming from a place of service you know that you're not wasting your time these want to make their lives better and the way that you sort of level the playing field in your mind is like adding value. So I think that's really been my kind of big picture he says.

Different relationships developed and so there are a couple things that are really interesting to me about this. You know all these people have like thousands hundreds of thousands potentially of people who are fans of their work or you know people who read their work into things that strike me as interesting that I'm curious about what is. Why do you think you stood out above all of them and to know that you're an introvert. So that seems really like counter to like you know your own personality that go up and start that conversation. So I'm curious like how would you know. What did you have to overcome to do that.

Yeah I definitely was a bit nervous like when I saw me I was like like should I go out there like that. My mind was like You know I might never bump into him again. So like you know this is an opportunity I just like today even though I didn't feel it holy culture. Well so that's yeah. And they said that and then I think another reason why I stood out to him is you know you know with our relationship and going above and beyond in many different ways. So for example you know meet me while I was in business school and he was like I'm relaunch my Web site and got these two different versions will love to get some feedback. And he said you have like a minute or two and you know he asked me to like him an interview. But I literally carved out five hours to help and I let my business school classroom. I went to the library and I organized this focus group of people and we just got you know I got so much feedback from people about the cost copy that design the messaging everything. And they put together almost like a rapport you know and sent it off to him and he was like wow this is amazing. Selena and he shared it with his team and him it sounds like a weird thing but whatever reason that just kind of how I operate and I just you know do these things that are high impact because I know that you know I just cannot get that to him with a one liner version let her be like it's not really that much. And you know that's not the way to stand out. You want to be remembered by Linster. You can't just be doing what everyone else is doing you can't be average. You have to do things that stand out. And that really made the difference. Remember you are like wow this person is like a great person to have my I.

I'm having them around. The other thing that is really interesting. I mean you kind of have already started touching on some of it. I know that you know if you are it meets website you're listed as one of his star students. And I'm curious what it is that enables the kind of behavior that produces those kinds of results. Because I mean he has thousands of students and I don't imagine all of them get the results that you did. And I see this across multiple forms of information consumption whether it's people reading books going to conferences or taking courses where there is a subset of people who get nothing out of it and you strike me as a person who would have gotten the results even if that hadn't been the case if you hadn't taken the course or hadn't met these people you've met.

Yeah I mean I don't know about that because like you know like in the world online. Those mean that's very flattering but there's so much to learn. And I definitely wouldn't be here today if I hadn't learned from my mentors whether it was you know in person conversations or being a part of group programs or joining or information products. But I feel like I've had this really strong drive really since high school I remember know when I was in Hong Kong I was kind of average you know there were a lot of really smart people at my school I didn't really stand out in any way.

And then when I moved to the states and went to boarding school in Tacoma Washington I you know like the straight A student there were about 30 people in my entire grade. There were a bunch of international students like me and then people that were you know local and you know we were like had you know where people are in the US and things like that. So I was able to kind of be in that number one spot and that was really exciting for me. And also I just you know had trouble connecting with the girls at my school. Were a boarding school. You know some of these girls were sent there because you know they are causing trouble at home and they would have you know these boyfriends and be having like Saturday Age and talking about me and all this stuff and I really thought such Sasha you know fish out of water and nerd I didn't really know how to connect and so I just had like you know focused on my schoolwork.

And I was the only person who gradually Ed you went to an Ivy League school. I think the next best school that's what I went to and my class was NYU and then there were like just you know different local universities that were good but not nationally mocking eyes in that way. But I do remember like enjoying you know being like the best you know. And the number one spot. And I think since then like I've just been really driven and also you know my dad was a stockbroker.

He was the vice chairman of the Hong Kong stock exchange at one point and one of the first people who went to Chinese people who went to Oxford University. And so I just think that you know it was kind of my environment. There was always an expectation in a way that you're supposed to succeed and do more than other people. And I think you know I guess my dad always taught me to a bag and my dad has now kind of it sounds bad but a little bit of a Donald Trump personality like. And so he just can't say anything is possible and he kind of thinks that he's the best and all of that. And so I don't really consider myself to be an arrogant person necessarily. I mean you know I definitely have you know kind of like some of the opposite qualities of arrogance like being shy sometimes or you know like soft critic law. But then I think there is like this other side of me that is like really bold and vicious and kind of believes I can do anything and is willing to take risks. And so you know what one example of this and this is connected to why I succeed in online courses because it's like an attitude and a mindset that you bring to bear. So just kind of as a back story like I used to be terrified of public speaking and when I was in business school we would you know get into small groups and have to introduce ourselves to our classmates and I'd be like in a group of six people who kind of go around the circle and the whole time I couldn't even pay attention to what people are saying because I was just so focused on myself and like how do I introduce myself.

I don't want to mess up like I don't like the scene and that's kind of. Yeah that was like my experience. I was like terrified to talk for 20 seconds and when I decide to start my own business pretty shortly after I saw all these will have workshops and I had actually been part of a woman's life coaching route which really like furthered my interest in the personal development and thought leader space. And so I thought you know I want to do a workshop I want to do a two day workshop can elevate your brand. And so I just posted it on Facebook and I shared it with the 150 people on my newsletter. And I sold seven spots. And you know there are going to be seven people who are paid six hundred dollars are going to come and listen to me talk and teach them for two days and it was actually a really insane thing because I was uncomfortable with 20 seconds of attention. And so like I had just like enrolled people to you know be in this workshop for two days. It was kind of crazy. And yeah I just did it and I remember leading up to the workshop that we kept cutting off you know the outline and everything and I don't do it I'm too scared. And then it was that I have to create it.

And I remember I've never ever felt quite this way before but like physically sick like feeling like I did throw up like my body was like frozen like it was hard for me. I was so scared. And I called one of my best friends on you sit with me at my apartment and just talk through like what I think I'm going to talk to people about. And yeah. Anyways like I did the workshop and as people started coming through the door I just kept talking to them I started to feel more comfortable. And then you know they weren't introduced are some. I had a little bit. And like OK kids you know and I became more comfortable and I feel like with my entrepreneurial career I've done so many things are early a little bit crazy. So you know after business school I decided to start my own business even though I had no clients who just typically know now. And you know I did get a couple clients at bat and I had this one nightmare while they made me not want to work anymore. And I found this business coach and she was twenty seven thousand dollars she had a mastermind and I was making about 4000 dollars a month at the time. And I decided you know I'm just going to take the leap and join the mastermind. And I remember looking at all the comments in the peaceful group and people were like oh I was in a tent hey he had a 20 game. And I thought like wow I'm like bottom of the class. But I would say that being an environment really helped push me to the next level. And I started to have 10 team outs and 20 came out. And there are specific strategies and ideas and things that my coach taught me with them made you know so uncomfortable I just hate all this money.

I better do it. And so I feel like you know with everything I do have a big vision and I just know.

Yes I want to do Mr. Omran Corazza I want to start my own business. I want to

Bring together these influencers and I get excited about it. There's like this confidence in me and then like later there's other signs that say wait a minute. Who do you think you already do this like. This is scary. You're going to die. No no no nonindictment I feel sick. And then I just had to go ahead and do it and just go in and pour everything into it because I don't want to mess up and then it kind of works. So yeah you never really talked about it in that way. It is kind of I feel like I've just approach my business and has grown by leaps and bounds and literally started before I felt ready.

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Wow. OK so many questions jump from this one is as you know I don't imagine that you woke up one day. You knew this is exactly what this business is going to look like. This is what I'm going to be known for and I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion that you did that you would be the person who basically everybody goes to for influence.

Yeah definitely didn't arrive at that place and I felt like I was having an identity crisis my store my business because I knew I wanted to help people at marketing but that I didn't really want to write and marketing articles and I was writing things I'm positively positive like you know he's Conajee fashions a highly sensitive entrepreneur and you know why you need more experience. You don't need more experience teamwork courage.

It was like wait I'm not looking to be like someone's life coach. But those are things that are so important for me to share. So it definitely took me a while. And you know I didn't. The influencer thing didn't really come to me right away because my first or business yes I had like you know help Marie fairly over me and Daniel course but it wasn't like you know it was just a handful of people I wasn't like the go to expert on healthy influencers. They started with publicity has you know I loved helping people get these media opportunities. And yeah but then I had a really bad experience with a client that made me like rethink things and then I started doing coaching and coaching and I'm like this mastermind retreat component and included these dinner parties because I realized like and give people advice but honestly like one of the things I'm best is bringing people together and connecting them with influencers. And so you know with these people that want this media coverage like you know I just thought it would be so safe for them to come to New York City and meet the different influencers in my network. You know you can get these opportunities to meet these editors for Forbes and Oprah and all these places. So I feel like all the things I do I always end up having the simple answer component.

And even with you know I have like a yearlong program impacting millions that I bring in my media experts people that have you know worked as producer of The Today Show or written for top magazines and you know even though I see myself in some ways as a thought leader I also definitely see myself as a curator and that people curating and elevating or other influencers.

So you know it definitely took a while with my first web site. You know I didn't fully express who I was and it took me a couple of years to really really know this is what I'm really excited about and I have a brand new Web site. I just feel like it captures it so perfectly. But you know I think that sometimes when you don't really know what I'm as supposed to brand myself what do I stand for. You know sometimes you mean sometimes you can figure it out with the help of the consoles and other times you are like developing your brand and what you want to be known for like living your life and just have a goal and you can kind of get mad at yourself or be here OP and be like let me come faster. So I don't really feel like I did anything wrong but you know it definitely did take me a couple years to understand where I'm headed in the market place and you know what my contribution would be.

My own experience at least for us that has been very much an iterative process to even get to the point of rebranding is unmistakable creative was for years and they feel like every year I get become clearer and clearer on what that is.

My Yeah absolutely.

And I'm sure another story I try to connect with influencers and you know the reason why I like to share these stories. They don't want people to think like oh you know you live in New York City or you knew the person you know. So it's how to kind of hear multiple stories again be all like oh how can I do that for myself. So this next story involves Daniel Hoare. I know he's been a gas multiple times on your show

And you know I was on her. You know I had joined her newsletter last actually I learned about her through a newsletter. Columbia University had mentioned this women's group ladies who lobbied and I checked out their Web site. And I think Danielle Clark was in there. I just thought that the work that she was doing was so cool and so I just reached out to her and offered a connection with the media people and that's how we are developing relationships. And then years later you know I learned by being on her newsletter that she was coming out with a book called the fire starter sessions and I thought you know this book is so cool I want to let people have over magazine know about it. And so I reached out to her and I said you know Hey Danielle like how would you be ok if I reached out to some people there I really feel like you should be on their radar. And she and I would love that. And she had hip hop pleasure sunny Kabita Firestarter sessions and they also sent me a couple of Firestar tattoos and I went out and bought this brown paper bag and put this like this vampire paper that was bursting out of that. And I bought a chocolate fired bar and assembled the whole thing and hand delivered it to Hearst Magazines and then I go I'm not a cent. And I took a picture of the package and I asked him where did that picture Daniel.

And she was like Selena this page is attackable. Every single word. The whole spirit of it. For the love of God thank you. And you know and I was so happy to help and to help her you know get on the radar of those people and get the conversation going there. And you know I think this comes back to like a big theme in my life which also connects to the story I told her earlier which is you don't wait for opportunities you have to create opportunities. Romney didn't ask me to spend five hours looking his Web site and coming up with her for four you know. And Danielle didn't ask me to you know pitch Oprah magazine. And I even have signed a contact there and it wasn't like training as a publicist or anything. You know I was just inspired and I wrote this thing. And so you know and like a couple years later when I was starting my business you know a new life I need to have some kind of endorsement on my Web site. I don't have any clients yet and I need to have things that make my Grandage happen in the draw people to me. And so I said to Danielle you know I'm not sure I'm so excited to be starting a business I'm launching a Web site and it would mean the world if I could you know include a sentence or two for me you on my side.

You know I was wondering if I could possibly use this link like the sentence sentences from the e-mail you sent me after you know X Y Z happened the whole Oprah thing and she was like absolutely no use and you know far and wide. And so I wasn't like being strategic like oh let me help Danielle because maybe one day our Jay's testimony or something. I was literally only holding her because I thought inspired and excited. And so

You know I think about like helping influencers and things like that. It's like you know kind of like a litmus test as I have to feel so excited inspired by the person that I would be like happy to do it for FREE.

It's like the money doesn't really matter. It's more that I believe in what they're doing. And it is an honor and it's a reward. It must be upon their warning to you. And just as a reward them Don.

And so I think that's also like a really huge thing that has to agree actually myself because you know a lot of these people are used to people asking them for favors all the time. And you know it's kind of scary for them to let people into their world knowing what who knows what they're going to X Factor Aska means that they have these walls. And I think for me I think people can sense like my genuine passion for what they were doing and that I didn't really need anything that isn't to say I haven't asked for support from my network ever because I definitely do. But that's not the reason why I will build a relationship with someone. And so yeah. So that was like another he's out of Indiana I'm really stood out and became remembered by Danielle. And that actually led to me her later telling Marie Forteo about me also tell Marie about me. And so it's like you know I sent an email to info Marie fairly Archila to get a response so when those two people came as you need to know Celina you know then I'm going to hear back right away. And so you know I think you know today I feel fortunate that. I've been able to you know know all these incredible people be the keep make things happen. But it wasn't like I did one thing. Like I didn't buy anything like I chose to live my life kind of as the giver as a super collector as this created because it is created you know to let these dots between ideas and opportunities. But that's kind of why I have you know the work and the influence that I have today.

So there's one part of this that I want to spend probably a lot of our time talking about and it's an odd paradox to me because you know you're self described as an introvert and yet you've built this massive network where you connect people together. And I'm wondering how those two things coexist.

Yeah so basically like I'm uncomfortable like even now when I go I went to this dinner just recently and it wasn't a dinner that I was hosting the dinners I'm hosting I prefer because I'm you know I'm the one who's gathering people together it's more comfortable. But I went to this dinner with a bunch of influencers and like I was at the table and I really didn't have much to say. And you know this really Lamone guy was like at one point he was really excited to meet me.

And I just didn't really know he and the conversation was like Celine are you there with us. And so you know I don't want to pretend that I'm like this charismatic I'm definitely I mean yeah obviously maybe there's times but overall you know and to her I am naturally shy. And yeah I love people and I love helping them and bringing them together. And so for me it's like I'm really Fiola by ideas and possibilities. So the people I'm inspired by are the people that have these big ideas that could change the world the people who I can just get behind their masses and love what they're about. So it's not like oh I want to be around all these people. I mean I personally prefer to just talk to people one on one or over e-mail them in a group even like a three person group feels like too much for me sometimes.


So you know I don't think I mean I think that you know a lot of really like my relationship building has come through one on one Kashan you know so maybe I'll meet someone in a group and I meet separately or maybe I'll be curating the group. And that really helps me because I'm like deciding who is coming to visit. You know I already know who's going to be in the room. I get to paint the environment the food the everything. And there's naturally so many things that talk about you now because you know you're the host of the event. So that has definitely helped me. But it is I mean even I think it's kind of a weird thing because I'm Tasman's situations right. I feel really uncomfortable and yet this is what I do and I also know that. You know in certain ways like I'm extremely good at it. But then there's other ways right. The like it's you know it's still hard.

How can companies and organizations do unmistakable work. Well there are a few ways but it involves going outside the regular standard operating procedures. And that scares companies and a culture of uniformity. It's intimidating to choose to stand out. But I really do believe that creativity is one of the most underutilized assets in most companies. And this puzzles me because creativity applied in business directly translates into innovation. Speaking as one of the few avenues where I get to share these ideas in person rather than online I think my message might be a good fit for your event or organization. Get in touch an unmistakable creative dot com slash speaking again that's unmistakable creative dot com slash speaking.

Hmm. Well let's do this let's shift gears a little bit and let's start talking about this idea of getting messages to stand out getting them to spread and ultimately impacting millions like what enables that and what enables that for the clients that you work with like. Why is it that you know some people stand out above the crowd and others don't.

Yeah. So the first thing like is just that you have to get your ideas out there and you know I want to begin with this because there's a lot of people that just don't even get started.

And I make a story this year around this which really illustrates the mindset that we have that provides when getting our ideas out there. So I when I started my business my first my very first client who was great was like Selena I love you. I want to share your work with my audience. Let's do a Skype video interview. And are thinking like want do you like I want to help other people be seen like I don't want people to see me. I'm like the behind the scenes person that you know deep down there was this like Yser voice. Honestly this is a good opportunity to just do it.

And so I did this interview and you know I was nervous the whole time. And I got the recording later I watched it with my interns. And at the time it was really working on my public speaking because I was just so terrified. And I also. You know knew that I was using words like all the time because I was nervous so I had to count all the words you knows SOS

And they were like 137 filler words like OK like this is terrible. Kind of like you know I'm watching this video and it covering my hands. These are my hands like I was watching a horror movie. It was uncomfortable for me and I noticed like it was maintaining proper eye contact. I wasn't smiling I was like oh my gosh this is like a train wreck like hey yeah I'm not going to share this with my last wish was not like a hundred and fifty people or something.

And one of my interns said to me you know honestly Selena I don't think it's that bad. Like I actually think you had some really good ideas. Sure thing can really help people.

And that is like a very very powerful and clarifying moment for me. And it has taken away three lessons from that. So lesson number one is that we're our own worst critic. So after the interview rather than being like oh my gosh I did my first interview and myself. I was like OK let's watch the recording and literally laugh always i like laughable in a documentary. And I think now it's like so Les destructive and that was like my approach to it. And so you know with a lot of us were afraid to put our word out there or we feel like it's not good enough. Les it's probably better than you think. So I to keep in mind that the second big idea that I took from this is that you know I was comparing myself to Vinnytsia Marie FERLING ARE all these people who seem so eloquent and polished had this incredible personality on camera. And the thing is you know I got my own personality that also you know they've been doing this for 10 years you know 20 years whatever it is. And so for me and for anyone else like we cannot expect our.

On day one to you know be at that level. It's something that develops over time and the only way they really get there is by get started. You know you get better with each interview.

And the third thing is my intern sent it out.

You know I think that what you share can help a lot of people like that was so powerful for me because honestly I was going into the interview thing about me like I knew I had good ideas to share. Now Mike I don't know I get resentful I don't know I'm an old guy. And it was just so me. OK. So when I realize like this is helping people's I should get these ideas out there. And so now I do an interview you know sometimes I know I'm not perfectly calm maybe I stumble on a couple of words or use some filler words whatever it is like I don't really judge myself for that I kind of get. But I take a step back and see myself like OK did I you know give my all I try my best and I share stories that could inspire. I offer valuable advice. The answer is yes and it's like OK I'm moving on. I'm not going to you know worry about the delivery. You know I showed up and I did my dast. And so yeah I mean that's a really powerful for me.

And you know I really have to say that mindset is the biggest thing you know because there are. So many people that have great ideas but you sharing them with other people they're just known by like 10 clients or a handful of people and they could be getting their ideas out there but they just don't say things themselves like you know it's not my style you know or I'm about helping people not about myself. And so there's all these things that prevent the ideas we've been getting out there and developed. And part of I found that divulging your ideas is by sharing it with other people and then you refine them and part of the way that you share it is by getting people to see bringing the gas hose refining your thought leadership by doing the podcast interviews and with each interview you get a better sense of how you ensure the idea in a more powerful way. And so I think a lot of people can't stop themselves they won't give themselves those opportunities. So the first thing we always have to address is mindset

What legal mindsets in terms of messaging. I've said yes to almost everybody that you have sent my way. But there have also been people that I've passed on and I'm trying to figure out how I think I know what the difference is for me. I don't know that I can articulate it.

Yeah I mean I think it's about having a message that's compelling. It comes down to copy. You know there's there's multiple things one of them is the copy. So for example Gary Bernstein on her Web site she has become the happiest person you know like a cool idea to be the happiest person you know. She can just simply get happy and that wouldn't be interesting or on my mind to say I have this you know phrase like you know go from Hidden Gems household name and goodness and just like become visible but the language that I use is more evocative and interesting and exciting. So that's a part of it you know because a lot of people think that they need such a unique idea and sometimes people do have neat groundbreaking ideas. But other times they don't and it's just their personality and there's you know there's a lot of people that you know health coaches that talk about weight loss. And you know oftentimes they're not creating something that's brand new but it's how it's their personality. It's their brand. It's their unique story and their way of messaging and talking about a problem or the issue here. You know it is a way that really resonates with people and kind of connects with them. Even on a social level. So you know this is a really big part of it.

How do you how do you find that resonance. I mean obviously we've talked about a little bit you know you've mentioned what it is that resonates because yeah that is absolutely the thing that sells me every time when I say yes to a guest is there's something in here that resonates with me and makes me curious and I feel like it makes for a good story.

How do people find what that is. How do they develop resonance. I realize a really weird question.

Yeah I mean so you know people are inspired by people if they can see a piece of themselves in them you know so I was just like them I think that with that you know so I know for me like when I share my story I always make talk about how trigger and how shy you know because it's true. And also it's a little bit different than a lot of people can resonate with feeling introverted or shy.

You're someone who is naturally extroverted. You know when we talk about how nice and these experts from afar and I would read their newsletters and watch their videos and you know and dream of one day you know getting to know them. It's like you know there's this resonance because people are like oh yeah me too you know. So I think that the first place is really thinking about your story and how you can appeal to people. When I was first getting started I would tell like aspects of my story or accomplishment so my business coach was like You know it's not relatable. It sounds like you're acting like you're better than other people and people really want to feel like they can connect with you that you know they can see themselves in your shoes. They see it as a Butterball or real side and you. So I actually always keep in mind I think of the more successful you become the more vulnerable you have to be and the more you just show your flaws so you can just now I was talking about you know all of my fears are high messed up in the interview like you know I like to share that because it also helps people connect with me because people may see me right now and be like wow she's not somebody bigger business. She was always influencers and she was in New York City I can't really connect with. The human side it's more interesting and you know the other thing is there's a certain

Things that people gravitate towards and that the media knows people gravitate towards and that's what they're looking for. So for example like rags to riches stories are really popular because you know a lot of people like wonder like oh wow she went from like welfare to millionaire like and I called her Texland could I do that too. So like rags to riches kind of hero's journey those types of things really resonate with people.

And then also like you know making things really break down in simple terms that people understand so creating frameworks so you know I know a lot of coaches and experts they have these like very kind of complicated ideas and they're frustrating and when the media doesn't understand them and they dumb it down. But part of it is also like thinking about how can I create like a system or framework around my knowledge. So for example there's a book called The Five Love Languages that's a framework that's really easy to understand you know which are the five languages or you are like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs or you know all these things are different frameworks and I've got my own frameworks in my business. So part of any long and complex idea is thinking about how you can simplify it through a framework you know. And also with numbers people like five levels three steps 12 steps. So those are some examples of things that you know tend to resonate with people and also not do well in the media.

There's one other piece of this that I want to ask you about. So you and I met sometime last year for the first time and you were in the middle of working on Daniel sportsbook launch and there was a piece you wrote about how you had pretty much broken every rule that anybody follows in building a business like none of the things that your mentors did to build their businesses you're dead and yet you've got extraordinary results. And I want to talk about why you made those choices. But more importantly how why they worked.

Yeah that's such an interesting thing. And you also say that he's basically just a kind of update. I wrote this piece about how you know it is a bigger market and one of my friends was like You know what's your next big goal and a lot of people. The goal you know after seven years is like 10 million. Now honestly like I really feel like you know that was a goal of miners and it was very important.

And that kind of reach that point where you know there's so many experts I admire who say things like Google on Instagram. You have driven every challenge. You have to do a three part video series. You know so many things. And I hadn't done like a single one of those things like you know I'm not saying that when I do your best practices because they're not like I don't I'm on my list consistently. That's definitely not best practice but you know I'm just going to where I was like a lot of my work was around serving people in my mastermind and being really hands on with my students and things like that.

And so I was Kennedy's interactions but I think that one thing I've always been able to do is get no like a brand that people really gravitate towards.

You know it's like when I was looking to hire a personal trainer there is all these options and then you know it's like a friend was like me you know had a person that he works with. That also works with Tom Herman and Derek Halpern and it's like OK well the trainer in the world. And so I think in my own business like I had built this brand by being the go to person for so many different thought leaders and they were recommending Nina. That was just like enough information for people. They were intrigued. And then when I did right you know I wrote high quality content and I shared stories and you know there are the personal I just write a newsletter you know an hour or two and just send it off like you know I definitely take my time with sharing my stories and so I think that the times I did show up you know I should have in a way that really resonate with people and then simultaneously I've been building this aspirational brand and working with a lot of people and my business model

Is actually very different from how some people recommend you go to business.

So a lot of people say I'm like ok start with like the seven dollar trip wire. You know where someone buys a report for seven dollars and then you got the ninety seven dollars. And then you do the one on the Santa Jorges and then you and you and I you know start off with charging you know 4000 dollars a month for PR work and then

You know doing a mastermind which was initially at 9 500 for the first six months and then of the human 24000 dollar mastermind the day. But by working with like a lot of top people I was able to create a lot of the key studies because. The top people are the top people for a reason because they take action they're going places they got ideas that resonate. And so I was helping those people and their followers you know started to take notice and then they would want to join. You know when I finally had a 3000 dollar coffee and those who would like to join that because I never had anything you know below like twenty four thousand dollars at a certain point. And so yeah I do think that my relationships and the way I'm branding myself even though initially I had a pretty good website that you know the relationships endorsement and just some of the basic positioning I had was onas. But like at this level at this stage you know in my career I'm actually doing I'm looking to start more into a thought leadership role because even you know with having a seven figure business I was still a little bit behind the scenes which means I always will be.

You know I like doing the strategy and things like that I really Bassal out my time in getting helping my clients get seen. And you know I think now like I want to put more time into like things like Instagram or you know what you know things like that for myself. But you know it's interesting because now I'm like the seven figure mark and will be multiple seven figures this year. And so I have a lot of financial resources. And so you know the business is running I don't have to worry about that. And I can worry more about this other stuff but you know I was always pursuing like visibility and podcasts and things like that. But there were other things like Instagram or a three part video series or like a fancy new website. And I didn't really start paying attention to until I got you know the this stuff down.

Do you think about money differently now than you did before.

Yeah I mean definitely when I was at a nonprofit meeting 42000 dollars a year like I really couldn't imagine myself making that much more money. Like maybe like eighty thousand dollars like one day or 60000 dollars spent like six figures I just felt like you had to be in finance to make six figures. And I just you know I didn't think I had the personality to be a business person because I will get hurt easily. And you know I'm naturally shy and things like that and I'm self-critical and I'm like you know sometimes I just like overthink things. But yeah now it's like it's me making money is in some ways it's easy. I know exactly how to do it. I mean it's also hard work to create apart some programs. So now it's like I feel like I can even you know earn my dad Monday which is something that's you know mind blowing because he is really successful so yeah I definitely think about it differently. I mean I think I used to feel bad about asking for money and making a lot of money. And you know now I don't really you know have that issue I think I used to feel like well if you're helping people you know like because when I was in college you know there was this dichotomy. People would come to campus you know to recruit you and it was either like you know you know investment banking consulting or teach for America. You know as I make money or like help people and I just did like there was this you know just like Splatt and I can see that you can do both. And the only reason why you can see it is because that role models I have other people in my industry who are doing it realize oh wow this really is possible and lots of people are doing it.

Wow. Well I think that makes a really fitting into our conversation but I want to have you talk a little bit about the impact the millions. Before we close things up can you tell people little bit more about it.

Yes absolutely. So like I said my passion is helping people who feel like this hidden gem to know they're good at what they do go from here and a household name and get publicity. And so I got this three Hardy series for people who want to learn how to get publicity how to get on top podcasts magazines TV and more. And so you can check that out impacting millions of dot com slash unmistakable. I know a mistake. And will I know I messed up the spelling in the last week. I use strany so just you know Schachner spelling the impacting millions dotcoms national mistake of will and you'll be able to check out that three part video series. We cover a lot so it's kind of like a mini course it's now. And also when you you know enter to watch the video series at the end of the video series you'll have a chance to a questionnaire for special giveaway. Just ask a couple questions I know you actually watch the videos and let me know about it yourself and you'll be entered to win a trip to New York City. All expenses paid. I'll be flying you in putting your pennies in a hotel and you'll get to come when it might influence your dinner parties and meet the media and get some mentoring for me. So you know I went to that and it's the extra incentive for people to check out the video series.

Awesome. What I want to finish with my final question which amazingly enough I've never to ask and I'm really curious to see what your answer is going to be to this. What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable.

You never asked. I've never asked you that. So I'm not sure what your answer is to this. I think it's there.

Vanderbilt I think is what makes someone unmistakable. I think about like my mentor me and how you know there was a story that he shared in a newsletter like eight years ago. And I remember reading that story and just connecting with it so much.

It was a story about how he was you know pursuing different summer internships and he went to this company that you know meet different you know packaged goods and they're like oh yeah you know Lockleys interim will start you at ten dollars an hour just like all the interns you do X Y and Z. And he was like in that moment he was like I don't want to just be like everyone I don't want just another injury. Now he has that opportunity. And there is a way. And he told that story that really like me and I 40 that e-mail know like 35 people. And even to this day I still remember the story that I read you know over 20 seconds eight years ago. And so I think about the people that I really admire and love and that inspires me is because I was moved by something the saddest happened when they opened and were barbel and show you know a flaw a weakness or insecurity. So I think you know I think for myself like how I try to be mystical as being myself because when I started my business I thought you know I know many people who are introverted or shy or deaths or that who are successful business leaders. I think that you know the ultimate inspiration is being yourself and you know realizing like I've been successful being arraigned I and so sharing you know some I feel weird saying oh I'm naturally shy I'm such an introvert I am not good at x y z. But it's true. And I think it also helps it Loganlea to me and it helps make me calm never. Mr. equal

Awesome. What I can do is take my time to join us and sharing your story and your insights with our listeners this has been amazing.

Yeah thank you so much. Yeah. And for everybody listening we will wrap the show with that

Thank you for listening to this episode of The unmistakable creative podcast while you're listening. Were there any moments you found fascinating inspiring instructive maybe even heartwarming. Can you think of anyone a friend or family member who would appreciate this moment. If so take a second and share today's episode with that one person. Because good ideas and messages are meant to be shared.

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