Finnian Kelly | Combining Love and Intention to Create a Meaningful Life

Srini Rao

 Finnian, welcome to the Unmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Finnian Kelley

Awesome, thanks so much.

Finnian Kelley

Thanks so much, Srini Raovas. I'm super excited and I know you're going to take me to a place that I haven't been before.

Srini Rao

Well, I have been known to do that to people. So I found out about your work by way of your podcast booking agency. Usually I hate those people, but every now and then one of their pitches makes it through my ruthless filter and yours did because I thought your story was really interesting. But before we get into what you do, I wanted to start by asking you, what is one of the most important things that you learned from one or both of your parents that have influenced and shaped who you became and what you ended up doing with your life?

Finnian Kelley

Wow, you're going deep straight away. So it's interesting. I actually, I have a really challenging relationship with my parents, but often they're your greatest teachers. And for me, it was the importance of really finding a partner that you enjoy and you love. There was a lot of toxicity in my parents' relationship and I just saw how it just flowed on through the rest of the family. And that has been a real driver in my journey of life is to make sure that I'm happy in relationships.

Srini Rao

Mm-hmm. Well, okay, so I remember reading that very distinctly on your web page about this toxic relationship that your parents had and you made a Deliberate decision not to repeat that pattern. Whereas a lot of people become byproducts of their environment What is it that enabled you to do that? And how do other people transcend an environment like the one that you came from?

Finnian Kelley

So one was to really get clear on what are the feelings that I want in life. I really believe that we are basically a big bunch of feelings. And so often in life, we focus on these goals, which are outcomes, but ultimately, what are we hoping from that goal is that it produces a particular feeling. So what I would do in life is like just, it's that intuitive feeling is getting connected and going, is this serving me? Is this making me feel more peaceful, more joyful, more fulfilled, more love?

And that's really how I made a lot of decisions in life. Now, what's funny is, I actually have repeated the pattern in some regards. Like I had a beautiful marriage, it was incredible, but at the end, it did get a little bit toxic, unfortunately. So even with that heightened awareness, the subconscious programming was so strong that I actually really relived a little bit. Now, like it was nothing like my parents' relationship, but it still resulted in a divorce. And that's where...

over the last five years, I've gone on this big introspection and went, okay, even if you have that conscious awareness that you want to be different, you need to be really aware of what are the subconscious programs have you got running on and then how do you rewire them to actually get the outcome that you want. And that's what I focus on every day is just, it's almost exploring and being the detective and going, okay, I'm not feeling the way I want to feel. What could be a potential belief that I'm operating on, which is driving those thoughts, the behaviors, and then resulting in that feeling.

And that's a daily practice which I think I'll keep up for the rest of my life.

Srini Rao

Well, I want to come back to that and go into that in a lot more detail. But I think to me, what's striking is that you had that awareness early in life. It sounds like how old were you when you realized that your parents' relationship was actually toxic? Like how old were you when you were aware enough to realize this is not something I want to recreate for myself.

Finnian Kelley

It was extremely young. So from a young age, there's actually it's pretty remarkable. My my aunt talks about this. I had one of these little books where you you'd fill out certain questions. And one of them was, what did you want to be? What do you want to be when you grow up? And most people talk about, I don't know, policemen, firemen, astronaut. And mine was, I wanted to grow up to be a really good man. So then I could find a really good wife. So then I could be a really good dad.

And I look at that and I believe, and this was when I was three years old, and I believe there was a subconscious awareness coming out that I could see that the family that I was brought into didn't actually have that. And I remember from a very young age, whenever there was conflict with my father or I'd see fights between my parents, I'd always just keep saying to myself, I'm never gonna be like this. I'm gonna show them.

I'm going to prove them wrong. I'm going to grow up and be a great guy to be a great dad, because I just would never do this to my own child. Now, in some regards, that was great. And it really served me in a lot of elements in my life, because it was a proving mentality. It actually contributed to a lot of my stereotypical success. Why I was independent from a very young age, why I had business success, financial success.

but it actually ended up hurting me later on because the core driver was fear. It wasn't actually out of love. It was out of, I had a lack of love and I wanted to prove them wrong. And I actually believe there was a period there with my ex-wife where she didn't want children and it was interesting. All I ever wanted was children and then we fell in so much love and when she didn't want children, I went, well, maybe I'm not meant to have children. And

I accepted that and I actually believe I probably manifested her because I wasn't ready to have children at all and I would have passed on that generational wound and it was a big realization when I actually was going through the healing process with the divorce. It was this one day where I realized, oh wow, I get to be a dad again and this time it wasn't out of proving to anyone, it had nothing to do with my parents. It was actually just the gift of I get to be a dad.

Finnian Kelley

And that's been a big lesson in my life is, are we doing our behaviors, are we making decisions out of a place of fear or out of place of love? Because you can have the same behaviors and same, yeah, same behaviors, but they can give a very different outcome if they're from a place of fear or a place of love. And I believe now that I'm ready to be a father because I'm doing it for the right reasons.

Srini Rao

Yeah, it's funny you say that because I often think about when I first wrote my books and started building this business, I thought of it as, oh, this is my fuck you to all the bosses who fired me. And I realized it was like that's actually coming from a place of vengeance, not from a place of the desire to serve, which is far more powerful. Because when you're motivated by revenge or fear, whatever it is, I mean, I think those are all forms of fear in one way or another. I realized it just it pollutes the work that you're doing. It pollutes the intentions behind your work.

Finnian Kelley

and I'll see you next time.

Finnian Kelley

It really does. And it's a low vibrational feeling. It's not that it's bad, it's just a low vibrational, low vibrational, high vibration. If you ever look at Dr. Hawkins' work, he talks about the range of vibrational frequencies with the different emotions and love obviously being very high, fear being very low. And what I've learned to you is that if you're the, whatever you create, it always comes back to the foundations. So,

something that's built foundationally on fear or a low vibration will always end up collapsing. Doesn't matter how big a empire you create, eventually will come in a collapsing way, whether it will collapse as a business or collapse through your health or through different relationships. So that's something I'm very aware of right now. And something I do with it when I coach a lot of entrepreneurs is you have to be prepared to let go of the thing that was driving you for so long. And so often we're fearful of that.

because it actually has worked in a lot of regards. We've seen the success, we've seen the materialistic achievements, and we're worried that if we give that up, we're gonna lose our edge. But we have to actually challenge that and go, well, love is always so much more powerful. And we see this because when you look at, there's so many great examples when a child goes under a car and a mother somehow lifts a car. They're not doing out of fear. The person who's doing it out of fear gets paralyzed.

The person out of love finds a force which is so much more powerful. And that's where we have to be, have the courage to shift and transition. And understand that maybe you'll lose a little bit of your desire to prove a little bit, but you actually live a more fulfilled life. So yes, you might not be scaling your company as fast, but you're actually living a more fulfilled life. And I even challenge people, I actually believe that you can have both. I believe you can actually have those outcomes as well.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Srini Rao

Well, to me, what's so fascinating about this is that I come from a culture where we're programmed to seek parental validation at a level that is probably not probably unquestionably unhealthy. That's just the nature of the Indian culture where what people in the Indian culture value and prioritize and reward is pedigree and success by traditional measures. You know, like, where did you go to school? How much money do you make? And letting go of that for me has been a lifelong journey. And it took me a long time to realize that this is actually my issue.

issue.

Finnian Kelley

You're so right. It's interesting about trauma. So yes, there's an event that perhaps your parents contributed to that caused that trauma. But then that happened once. And then for the rest of our life, we keep carrying that with us. And that is a daily choice. Like, unfortunately, we are choosing to participate in that programming of ourselves. So I really like that you bring that up because we need to almost accept

and go to a place where we're like, yeah, we have this awareness that this has happened, accept that this is the case, and then see how we are participating in this in an ongoing practice and then go, well, are we willing to let this go and we're willing to release this. And it doesn't mean that it's forgotten, but it actually, it's that act of forgiveness actually sets you free. It actually doesn't set the other person free. It sets you free. I believe acknowledgement is a gift to the other person and sets the other person free, but forgiveness.

does to yourself. So this is where we need to take complete responsibility and go if we're not feeling the way we want to feel, it's no one else's fault. It's no one else's responsibility about ourselves. We need to take complete responsibility. Now at the same time we can't blame ourselves, we can't put ourselves into shame. We just have to accept that this is the way it is, but we have free will. That's the ability of the conscious mind to work with the subconscious.

The conscious mind has the ability to free will. How do I choose to, what thoughts do I listen to? What behaviors do I wanna be living out each day? And then how do I program my subconscious mind to start working for me rather than against me? And I believe that's what's happening a lot in our lives is that we're in conflict with the conscious and the subconscious mind. And we need to start working together.

Srini Rao

Now, well, I want to go deep into that. But one thing that I think is unusual about you is you had this level of self-awareness at such an early age. Why do you think that is? And why do you think that there are so many people who never develop that, period?

Finnian Kelley

In some regards, I think it was just a survival technique to tell you the truth. There was an element where I felt so unsafe and so unloved that I realized that I had to take responsibility. It's interesting, I'm actually writing a memoir right now and I'm very close to finishing it. And I know you love reading books of all your guests and I look forward to sending it to you once it's done. And maybe we could have a deeper chat, but the journey there that I was...

I was really exploring is, is that at a young age, because of the experiences that I felt that I felt unsafe, I had to transition into almost my being the parent of myself. And that made me super heightened aware and to go, well, I don't want to feel this way. So how do I actually create the environment to, to get the feelings that I wanted? And I believe that was a, an element of self agency.

and not just being a victim of my situation, just realizing I can change this. Like I actually can influence what happens in my life. And maybe that's what people aren't willing to do is they're not willing to take the responsibility and just have this awareness that they actually can change and they don't have to accept these conditions.

Srini Rao

One thing I wonder is, did that desire for safety prompt you to join the army? Because I know that that's part of your background as well.

Finnian Kelley

Hmm. So it was really interesting. The army choice was a, it was a way to break free of the conditioning of my societal upbringing. So I went to, my mom was a doctor, my grandparents were doctors, uncle was a doctor from a very young age. There's a in the medical industry, there's a, there's a bit of a concept that they're the best. We're probably all experienced.

Srini Rao

I'm Indian, man. You don't have to tell me that.

Finnian Kelley

Yeah, they're great. And it was almost this program that if you were academically smart, then of course you're gonna be a doctor. And doctors was a pinnacle of success. And I went to it, I got myself into a private school, my friends, parents were also doctors. So it was just this programming and all my friends wanted to be doctors. And I just knew looking at my relationship with the medical industry, I didn't see them being that happy.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Finnian Kelley

I didn't see them being that great a people to tell you the truth. They were often very self-absorbed. Some were doing incredible things but there was a self-absorption there and I just knew that wasn't my path. Now when you're a young person and you're keeping up with appearances, that decision about what career you do is very important and there's a lot of ego involved. There's an element of can I justify this? Is this cool?

So when I realized that medicine wasn't my path for me, now what's interesting, I still applied for medicine because the program was so strong, I went, well, what's another option for me? And I remember a helicopter pilot came to my school and shared the story of going to the defense force, being the helicopter pilot, going to army training, like through the officer training. And people were like, wow, that's really cool. So I suddenly went, well, maybe this is a pathway out for me. Also provided financial independence, didn't have to rely on.

any support from my parents. University was paid for, I was getting paid and it was a ticket out. And I actually got accepted into both. And I thought I was going down the military path but then the programming was so strong with the medical element. And it was a really interesting moment with my mom when I shared that I actually, because I originally told her that I wasn't applying for medicine. I just didn't want to have to deal with the pressure or anything like that. And she couldn't understand it. And then I shared with her that I got.

accepted into medicine and there was this moment of just this bliss, love and acceptance. I'll never forget the moment when I shared it with her. It was like there was this connection that I'd never had with her before and it was beautiful and then suddenly I went, is she only accepting me because I'm going down her path and I actually, it turned into a resentful feeling for me and that's when I went, I can't do this. I have to go down the military path and it was a, it was an escape. Probably I,

it was a very different pathway, but it was an escape out of that life. And it led me, wasn't the right path for me in the end, but it enabled me to get out of that world.

Srini Rao

So as somebody who served in another country's military, when you look at the way that the United States acts from a military standpoint.

What do you make of it, particularly given what we're going through right now? Because I've had a handful of military people here, and I'm always appalled by how much money our country spends on defense. But there was a guy who told me when I gave this talk to a group of retired special forces guys, the guy who came to pick me up was on joint special operations. I was like, don't you guys take orders from the president? And he told me something that made me rethink my sort of antagonism towards this whole idea of military. He said, you've got to realize.

falling orders from politicians.

Finnian Kelley

Yeah, so that's one of my challenges now. Obviously this is a very political topic, but I think the way Americans worship the soldiers in America, like there's a whole thing we've got to be worshiping our veterans, is a bit of a facade so that no one can actually ever question the military's presence and what we're doing. Now, I respect every single soldier and the things that they do are absolutely incredible, but because we have this such a...

patriotic society here, if anyone was to question the military and the soldiers then be saying well you're not supporting these great people. But like you said, who's actually pulling the strings behind the scenes? And I think that's something what America does very interesting that they create an environment where you can't ever question it because then you're being unfair to the veterans. But the veterans, like what's happening to them? They're not being taken care of, they're not looked after, they're literally...

their assets. That's how people, the country views them. And I just wish there was more questioning and asking like, why are we doing all of this? Like, why do we need to do this? What's the drivers behind it? And that's unfortunately not able to, we're not able to have those conversations in America.

Srini Rao

Yeah, well, as somebody who has spent time in the military now living what sounds like a very different life, do you think that we'll ever get to a point where we have some semblance of order instead of anarchy? Because there's a guy, Richard Haas, who wrote a book. He was an economic adviser to Bill Clinton, no, to George Bush. And he wrote a book called A World in Disarray. Vice News did a documentary about it. And I remember thinking while I was watching that, I was like, this guy isn't kidding. We are living in a world in disarray.

to be spreading.

Finnian Kelley

Well, it's one of those situations if you bring a gun to a fight, it generally gets used. And I think this is one of the challenges is that we keep justifying our presence through certain instances. But I wonder if we actually just reduced some of our presence and some of our arms and everything would then people just start relaxing. Now, this is obviously very challenging right now because we've got Russia invading Ukraine. But I just wonder if we just all just agreed to just

reduced like what we did in the in the arms race, like when we just started green, let's like start neutralizing our nuclear weapons, suddenly, it started working. But if one gang, it's basically think of as gangs, if one gang has this, the other gang thinks they need to bring more aggression, it starts getting stronger and stronger. So I always think I wonder if we suddenly had all female leaders in the world, what would happen? Like, what would actually happen? Would we suddenly start

Srini Rao

Hmm.

Finnian Kelley

realizing perhaps we can connect through open communication and being vulnerable and expressing our needs and how we're feeling maybe we wouldn't have to have these big armies.

Srini Rao

No. Let's go back to this moment when you tell your mother that you get into med school and you feel this immense amount of love, but then you decide not to actually go to medical school. I think every one of us has had one of those moments in our lives. El Luna would call this a crossroads of should and must. And why do you think it is that you had the courage or whatever it took to

Defy your mother and why is it that so many people conform to the expectations of other people?

Finnian Kelley

In some regards, I think I do have a little bit of a rebellious streak. There was a, there's an element there. Yeah. Uh, I just, it felt very conditional to me. And from a young age, I just couldn't understand conditional love. I, when I, with my friends, I just love you. And if you're in my life, I really just, I love you. I love you. And.

Srini Rao

I can relate.

Finnian Kelley

I don't believe that's how it operates in the world for a lot of people. There's so much conditional love, even from a young age. You see it, it's like, wow, you are great, great grades. You're amazing. I love you, which is basically telling the child that we love you if you get good grades. And I think that's where the programming starts happening. And I was just like, this is, this is just not the way for me. I couldn't understand that. Here I was.

pretty nice young boy and how could I just not be loved and accepted for who I was. So there was an element where I went well, if you're operating from that program, I can't plan that world, I need to find my own path. And that's, that's what really enabled me to break free of it. And I think I've just a lot of people are really scared to let people down. That's probably why that they operate in these programs, which are dictated by their parents or

their school systems is that they don't want to feel like they're letting people down, but they don't realize that if you're not living your authentic life, you really are letting everyone down because you have a unique gift and a unique zone of genius that only you have in this world. Like that's your, that's God's expression is coming through you and you need to be making sure that you're completely in line with it because that then helps everyone else. And it's that whole concept where a lot of people are focusing on

they need to go save other people and they need to go save the world or change the world. And I always think about that. There's a little bit of egoic nature coming through on audacity. Like who thinks that you have the right to change world? Like why does the world even need to be changed? Like the Tao Te Ching, I love the philosophy of that. It's always part of like the world is just fine as it is. How about you just focus on your unique expression and how do you heal yourself? And if by the fact of healing yourself,

and it's not even really healing yourself, it's just coming back to yourself, then you actually are positively affecting the world anyway.

Srini Rao

It's funny because it reminds me of a quote from Oliver, for Oliver Berkman's second book, Time Management for Mortals. He said, one of the best ways to reduce your anxiety is to contemplate your insignificance.

Finnian Kelley

Hmm, it's so true. And that's why the being, I think being in nature is just such a special gift because you just realize how insignificant you are. Like when you're in the Grand Canyon, that's my space. That's where I instantly get grounded. I drop in and you feel incredible because you're in the womb of mother earth and you're feeling it and you just realize no one would notice if I disappeared right now. And there's a brilliance in that as well. And

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Finnian Kelley

Also just looking at all the different facets that make up life, you just realize your one little part. Now that doesn't, it doesn't actually devalue your life. I actually think it makes it even more special because you realize that there's so many magical elements that contribute to the world that we live in.

Srini Rao

Let's talk briefly about money. You came from a family of doctors and the story that I was taught growing up with my dad who was a PhD was that MDs are money doctors and PhDs are poor hungry doctors. What was the dominant narrative about money and wealth around your house? And I mean obviously you went on to achieve financial success so I'm curious what were you programmed to believe about money?

Finnian Kelley

It's a great question. It's actually been a big driver of mine. So here I was, mom was a doctor, but we lived very, very poor. And my dad was a musician. And there was always a story that we don't have money for this. We can't do this. So I couldn't go to a tennis tournament because we didn't have money. We lived in a, we, from a young age, we would always live in these houses that were being renovated. And we bought a farm when we were seven years old, which was sort of the dream of my father. But then we lived in a...

mansion which was built in 1820 but all of us were in one room for a year while it was actually getting renovated and there was like rotting floorboards, there was mold and it was it was a curiosity and I always felt ashamed about our financial situation because I would be comparing myself against the people I'd be playing tennis with or at my school and they all have nice cars and they and they lived very well. So there was a there was always conflict around money and from a

Finnian Kelley

there was a lot of excuses around money, like why we couldn't do something was always like because of money. So I learned from a young age that, well, money created choice. So I started being entrepreneurial, trying to earn money and being focused so I had that level of freedom. And I also saw a lot of conflict around it. So my mom's parents were both doctors and they had wealth. And then when I was 10 years old, my grandfather died.

and what happened after his death was just disgusting. It was just fights between all the siblings. There was stories about this person getting this money. There was a trust that was set up for the grandchildren, which at the time there was only, there was the four of my family, no one else's. And that money has been used as a power play ever since. And we've never even seen any of it. And now I'm 37 and...

the money still hasn't been contributed. It's still controlled by a certain family members and it's not even that much money. So for me, I was just like, wow, like money can really, really affect people. And I just went from a young age, I'm just never gonna live that way. I'm always gonna be able to, I'm never gonna use money as an excuse why I can't do something, because I believe you can always find it, you can always create it. And I just don't wanna be controlled by money.

Srini Rao

So how did you go about creating it? Walk me through the trajectory of getting from the army to where you're at today.

Finnian Kelley

Okay, great. So I joined the army when I was 17. So I was a young person. I was the youngest army officer, had a degree by 19 years of age. And we, we got paid a little bit about the money while we were training. And it was an interesting relationship because we would be, we'd get paid, we'd go out field for a month. And I was so miserable when we're out.

doing exercises that all you'd be thinking about is like, how am I gonna come back and party and what am I gonna spend my money on? So we would save up and then we'll come back and we would get drunk, we would gamble, we'd buy things and then we'd spend all our money and then we'd have to go back again. But one thing I always did was I always just had money going every month into an investment. So even when I ran out of money, I still had money building. Then when I was a officer at

sort of age 23, I started learning, I wanted to get out of the military, but I didn't know, well, what would I do? Like how would I earn money? There was a little bit of a trap because we were earning good money at a young age, but it wasn't amazing. And I went, well, I have to start being a bit smarter. So I started learning how to trade currency and equities and I had some early success and it gave me a lot of confidence that I could basically get out of the military and not have to go find a job. So I did that and then,

a year later after traveling around the world, having fun, and went through the emotional roller coaster of trading as well, which I don't recommend for people. Even if you can make money, it can completely hijack your life. I then met my ex-wife who we fell in love with and we started a business six weeks later. We started a private wealth management company. It's very curious how we did this, but...

I had an investment qualification. I was very confident investing. She was a financial advisor and she had a vision for a business. And we saw that there was a real lack of connecting money with what matters to their life. A lot of people were just making money for the sake of it. And that was in the global recession at that time. A lot of people lost a large amount of money and they were complaining. And we just said, well, it's because you weren't connected with your values and your intentions and your goals.

Finnian Kelley

and money should be a tool rather than just part of like, just something that you do. So we set up a private wealth management company which connected strategic based financial advice, values based advice with investment advice. And we had a lot of success very early on going after wealthy old people, actually went after doctors and which is quite funny because I just knew how to communicate to them from being brought up in those families. And we had a lot of success and.

then we build a financial education company for millennials as well. And that's how I built my money.

Srini Rao

Yeah. As somebody who.

worked in finance, when you see the way that we have basically used finance in such a way to have this incredibly uneven distribution of wealth in a place like the United States, where it doesn't seem like there's this sense that individual actions affect collective outcomes and people are becoming more and more individualistic, as Alec Ross pointed out to me in one of our conversations, what do you make of that?

Finnian Kelley

So I think unfortunately what happens is, is that people don't realize that there's a system and there's a game that's actually rigged in your favor if you participate. And the people who have had education or have been brought up in wealth, they know how to play the game. And it actually supports them to be able to do this. And this is something which I just really wanna empower a lot of people to go, you have to take responsibility for your own financial situation. And it's through little.

behavior changes and participating in the game that works for you. Now I'm not saying the game is right, but if there's a game that is there, you might as well learn to play by the rules. So that's definitely one element there. And I also just think it's really unfortunate what's happening in the world right now. Like capitalism, when you actually think about capitalism, it's meant to be about money flowing.

That's the act is money's meant to be flowing. But what's happening in the world right now is that there's more storage of money than ever. Like a lot of people are just storing wealth and it's not actually moving. And we think of it, money is like blood. Blood is meant to be moving the whole time. As soon as blood stops, it turns into a clot and it can cause us a lot of damage. Very similar with our relationship with money is like how do you keep it flowing in a system and actually realizing that there is a level of abundance.

And we all can participate in that. And what's interesting, I was listening to a podcast the other day and I was talking about, it's in our best interest to actually increase the wealth of everyone. Like if we actually made the poor richer, then for example, climate change would improve a lot because what happens when you're having to fight for your food and you're worrying about your next meal, you're not worrying about like,

Am I burning the right fuels? Am I caring about plastic? It doesn't happen, but as soon as you get to a place where you're not in that survival mode, then you can actually have the luxury to make those decisions. So I'm curious why we actually aren't helping everyone rise up a little bit. And what really concerned me the last couple of years is that there's been all these global problems, like clean water and good quality food and

Finnian Kelley

yeah, just some global problems that they've never been able to have money for. There's always been like, oh no, we can never provide that money. And then we just saw what happened in the last two years. We suddenly made money out of nowhere for this pandemic. And I actually question if we actually had allocated those funds to other things, we might have had a greater effect. And that tells me that there's a bias between our decisions. And a lot of the times when we say

We don't have money for that. It's because we don't want to give money to them.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Well, I think that makes a perfect way to bring us back to the earlier part of our conversation about becoming aware of the things that are subconsciously determining your beliefs, your behaviors and your actions. How do we first develop the awareness to figure out what those things are, you know, what behaviors and what decisions we're making based on fear. And then how do we go about changing them?

Finnian Kelley

Great, so it all comes back to feelings. So feelings are your cue, whether your subconscious is working for you or against you. If you're having negative feelings, low vibrational feelings, things like fear, lack, separation, then it's telling you that perhaps you've got a subconscious program, which is not working in your favor. So that's the first thing is a clue. And something what I always like to say to people is, I don't care what you believe,

all I care is that your beliefs are working for you and they're giving you more positive emotions than negative emotions. So that's the first indication. Then, so we uncover these feelings and we go, okay, what are the behaviors that I'm doing that are driving these feelings? Now, it can't be behaviors of other people, it can only be our behaviors. Now, one behavior might be is how we're reacting to other people's behaviors, but that's still your ownership. So we get connected to these behaviors and we go, okay, that's driving these feelings.

And then what thoughts are driving us to make these behaviors? We have lots of different thoughts. All of us have positive, negative thoughts, but for some reason we're choosing to act on these negative thoughts. And then we can go, well, what's a potential core belief of someone, if someone had these thoughts and these behaviors and these feelings, what's a potential core belief that they might have? And you need to dig, you need to keep digging. A lot of the times people think,

a thought is a core belief, but go deeper behind it. And a lot of the times when you uncover it, it's things like I'm not worthy, I'm not lovable, I'm not enough, I'm alone, these core beliefs. So mine was I'm gonna be abandoned, because that's what the program I had from a young age, I felt like I was abandoned by my parents. So then that was a core belief which drove certain thoughts, behaviors, and feelings to the rest of my life, which ultimately ended up in me getting abandoned in my marriage.

Was that her or was that me? Was that actually my responsibility? Like I actually created that environment because we are the creators of our reality. So once you get clear on that loop, you then go, okay, wow, I have a program that's not working for me. Well, how do I become the coder and recode this program to actually work in my favor? So we need to get connected. What are the desired feelings that we wanna feel? What behaviors would lead to those feelings? What thoughts?

Finnian Kelley

would I have to be listening to drive those feelings? And what's the core belief that I wanna have? So if I'm not worthy, that's a negative core belief we have, then I'm worthy is a core belief. And then the only thing we have ability to change is our behaviors. That's our free will, that's our conscious moment. We can choose to respond with a new behavior or react to the old pattern. And that's what each day we have to just commit to those behaviors. And when we do those behaviors, then generally we get an outcome.

which is different to previous ones, and we start getting a new feeling which chips away at a new belief. And this just needs to be a daily practice and understanding that we might have a number of these faulty programs operating. And what's really liberating about this is there's a moment when you might actually uncover that you're contributing to the situation you're in, and you can go, this is where the ego often wants to rise up, and you can go have shame.

and you'd be like, I can't believe I'm doing this to myself. And all that does is actually just compound the problem. In that moment, we need to have compassion for ourselves and realize, well, if we have been contributing to our current situation, our current environment, we also can do the reverse. We can also create the world, the environment that we want. And that's a very liberating act because that's the moment where we stop being a victim, we stop being controlled by other people, and we actually are able to change and recreate our life. And that's what I really want people to focus on, is that...

you don't have to be in the situation that you're in. Our mind is a powerful, powerful force. And there's two parts of the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. The subconscious mind, I like to see it as a loyal soldier. It will just do exactly what you tell it to do. If you say, I'm fat, well, it's gonna just make you fat. Like that's what it will do. And it doesn't have the ability to interpret your intent. So sometimes we say language, but we mean something else.

it doesn't interpret that, it just takes your language for verbatim. But the other thing is it has the universal power, it has this force connected to this, tapping into the universal field so it can make things happen that you didn't think were possible. Now, the really smart people who are living life in an abundant, who are living free, understand this dynamic and this is why they seem to go through life in a really great, easy way because they're tapping into a force which is above them.

Srini Rao

No.

Finnian Kelley

If we can all do that, then it's so liberating. And effectively, everything that's happening in our life is a result of a manifestation. Unfortunately, most people are doing it unconsciously and it's not working with them. And we're just recreating the programs that you've been put into us by our parents or society. And this is why we just keep having generational trauma. And that's where we have to take responsibility for how we're feeling and choose to rewire our programming.

Srini Rao

Well, you mentioned this whole concept of conscious versus unconscious manifestation, and you're a finance guy. I know you're also incredibly pragmatic, probably by nature of your training, because there are a lot of people who might hear this and basically hear that as a perfect excuse to sit on their ass staring at their vision board lighting scented candles and basically engaging in what I call a bunch of new age bullshit. So how do you connect everything you said about with practical action?

Finnian Kelley

Beautiful, so there is an element where you have to do the visioning, and that is a creation in the present moment. It's getting so connected to the feelings and what you really wanna feel for your life, and then start to visualize, well, how do you actually get those feelings? Well, that person would be behaving this way. They wouldn't be reacting, they would be responding. They would be coming with positive energy. They would be investing. They would be seeking out opportunities. And so you can already see in that visualization process,

you're actually starting to interpret, well, what are the behaviors that you need to do? And then once you have that creation period, you actually need to go be that person. You actually have to go live those behaviors. And that's unfortunately the thing which is forgotten about a lot of these times in these law of attractions or the secret is there's an action element. It's vision plus action. It's getting clear on what really matters to you. And then what are the behaviors that you need to do to go to connect with it? And this is where there's an element of a

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Finnian Kelley

it's a active and passive relationship. There's an active element where you're creating, getting very clear, and then leaving those behaviors, but there's also a passive element where you have to have this trust that what you created without just sitting there envisioning is actually happening, and you've got to keep that connection and start bringing that towards you. And that's the very hard thing, is that sometimes,

you might have this manifestation, you might have this creation, and you're all excited about it. And then you start living some of these behaviors, and you're doing it, and then the next day, you get evidence which is completely opposite to the creation. So for example, you're manifesting abundance, the next day a bunch of bills come in, and you're like, well look, I'm a failure, my manifestation didn't work. But that's not true. Where are those bills coming from? Are they coming from the manifestation of yesterday?

or are they coming from the unconscious manifestation from a month ago or two months ago? And that's the challenge is to identify that there's a lag period sometimes. And you might've created a new program, a new manifestation, a new creation, but you also have the other one running as well. And when you get that evidence of the old one, you have to stay so connected to the new one to override the negativity of the old process. And that's...

That's the challenge is that little bit of a period. And you also don't know when your creations are coming through. Sometimes like I'm experiencing some creations that I manifested 10 years ago and I was like, oh, wow, it just, it didn't come in the timeframe that I expected, but it's coming here now. And that's why we have to be so aware of what are our thoughts, what our behaviors that are connecting, because you never know that you might be manifesting something really poor for your future. So it's a daily practice.

Srini Rao

now.

Srini Rao

It's funny you say that because I think that applies so much to creative work. I remember the idea I had that ended up becoming my first book with a publisher. I wrote it down in a notebook four years before I got the book deal.

Finnian Kelley

It's incredible, isn't it? And if you, Matthew McConaughey with green lights, he actually shares about that. Like he looked back, he found a piece of paper of the things that he was intentionally wrote down when he was 21 or something. He found it 20 years later. And he literally, every single one of them was there. So there is an element of just be very mindful of what you wanna put down. This is why one intentionality, one of our core products is a grounding path. We actually have four different pathways, the grounding path, the prosperity path.

Srini Rao

Mm-hmm.

Finnian Kelley

the love path and the wellbeing path. And it's getting really clear on what matters to you and what you want in your life. Unfortunately, this is where people struggle with the most. They actually don't know what they want in their life. And if you don't know what you want in your life, how can the universe work for you? You've got to get really, really clear on it. And then every day you stay connected to it. And the most important thing is ultimately how you want to feel, because that's...

That's really what matters to us. And then you can start saying, well, I believe these things would contribute to my feelings and I like them, but I'm not attached. But get clear on this. So then you can actually tap into a power which is above you, something higher than yourself. But if you don't, then you might be just creating what your parents wanted for you, or society's telling you, or your friendship groups. And that's unfortunately what a lot of people are doing. They're participating in the creations of others and not their own.

Srini Rao

Yeah, I think that when writer Carroll wrote the bullet journal, one of the things he talks a lot about in that book is intentionality. And he says appropriating other people's goals is often what leads to empty and meaningless accomplishments. And he actually uses the million dollar example. He said a lot of people set really arbitrary goals. But then if you ask them why they have no idea. And he said, if you don't know what a million dollars is going to do for you, the goal isn't going to be not only is it not going to make you happy, you're probably not going to accomplish it because you don't have any real driver behind why.

Finnian Kelley

It's so true, and this is why I think there's a problem with the modern day goal setting. People just focus when they set goals, they're just throwing things out there. And it might have been that they've had conditioning in that way so they think, oh yeah, I want a big house, a big house is gonna bring me joy. Sometimes it doesn't. A lot of people actually feel trapped by their big houses. So this is why we need to have intentions first before goals. Get really clear on what the feelings you wanna feel with intentions, and ultimately they should line up with your values as well.

and getting that connection and then goals are some metrics, some arbitrary sort of signposts to show that you're on track to reach your feelings. But sometimes you can not reach your goal, but still get your feeling. And I always give this example where I was president of the entrepreneurs organization and I had all of these goals for the year and then the pandemic hit. And I was on track for all the goals and then the pandemic hit and overnight, none of my goals were gonna be able to be achieved.

And for a moment there, I started feeling very sorry for myself and then I went, hang on, you must have done something with intentionality here. And I went back to my one pager and at the top, it said, my intention is to be proud of my leadership. That's success for the year for me, is to be proud of my leadership. And then I just started thinking, well, what would a leader who is proud of their leadership do right now? And I started just thinking of all the behaviors and I started implementing them. And I can honestly say,

I was more proud of my leadership than I ever would have been if I had reached any of those goals because something else took over me. And I didn't achieve any of my goals, but I was still able to feel the way I wanted to feel and that's ultimately what matters.

Srini Rao

Wow. Amazing. Well, this has been really, really thought provoking. I love conversations like this because they leave people with more questions than answers, which is a good thing. So I wanna finish with my final question, which is how we finish all of our interviews at the Unmistakable Creative. What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable?

Finnian Kelley

For me, it's been really clear on what matters to you and having the conviction and the courage to just go out and get that. That's what makes it for someone because then you're looking at them and they're just like, wow, they're living their life. Now, whether that's the person who is on the street, dressed in a crazy costume outfit and they're having fun and just dancing in their place, I respect them just as much as someone who is running a billion dollar company.

As long as you are authentically being you and living life on your terms, wow, that's unmistakable.

Srini Rao

Amazing. And where can people find out more about you, your work, and everything you're up to?

Finnian Kelley

Great, so my website is finniankelly.com and that takes you through a really great process and I highly recommend people download the Intentional Living Guide, which is really great. And if you wanna get clear on what really matters to you, if you go to intentionality.com, there's an incredible, really affordable, small, short course, which helps you go through this process. It creates an intentionality compass, which can end up guiding you through your life. And I love hearing from people. I...

you'll be surprised that I respond to people. So reach out with questions and I'm here to help.

Srini Rao

Amazing. And for everybody listening, we will wrap the show with that.