Kimi Culp | The Power of Feeling Like You're Enough

Kimi Culp: Now I understand it to be a huge part of my drive, like you said, right? Okay if I accomplish this, if I excel at this level, then I will prove to myself and prove to the world that I am in fact, so after years of therapy, I don't know if I can precisely answer your question when it began. And maybe it does go back to childhood feeling like academically, I wasn't enough.

I always felt like I wasn't tall enough. I wasn't smart enough. And so I wasn't athletic enough, and so I guess perhaps proving my value in other ways came something that I was, to some extent, relentless about.

Srini Rao: I'm Srini Rao, and this is the Unmistakable Creative Podcast, where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who started movements, built thriving businesses, written bestselling books, and created insanely interesting art. For more, check out our 500 episode archive at unmistakablecreative.

com.

Kimmy, welcome to the Unmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Kimi Culp: I'm very excited to be here.

Srini Rao: Yeah. It is my pleasure to have you here. And I was thinking about why I said yes to you as a guest. And I was just telling you before we hit record here that it's always based on personal curiosity.

And I just from reading your bio and the way that your publicist had positioned you, I thought, yeah, this is a woman who sounds a lot like me in terms of the way she likes to tell stories. And so I thought, yeah, this is a no brainer. This is somebody I want to talk to. But before we get into all that, I wanted to start by asking you, what did your parents do for work and how did that end up shaping the choices that you made with your own life and career?

Kimi Culp: My mom, when she married my dad and had my sister and me didn't have a college degree. So when she was raising us, she went back to school and got a master's in clinical social work and she was a social worker while we were growing up. And she was actually during a stretch working in women's shelters working with women, doing self esteem workshops for women who had been abused and were rebuilding their lives.

Looking back, pretty fascinating, important modeling as a young girl. And my father was a serial entrepreneur and creative. He's 82, but I think he'd be great on this podcast. So I had a father who was an entrepreneur and a mother who was a social worker.

Srini Rao: What did they teach you about making your way in the world?

Oh,

Kimi Culp: I think I, my parents were valued kindness. To, to some extent above performance or excellence, which is interesting because I think now in life as somebody who's really ambitious I value all all of those things, but definitely kindness and being polite was a big deal in our house.

But when it came to work ethic, I think it was. demonstrated in the way they lived their life. So that was a big deal in our house was working hard and doing your best. And I didn't have a traditional brain meaning I had a learning disability, now called learning difference. And so I think I saw, In particular, my dad developing strengths that compensated for the pieces of him that were different or perceived as weak and my creative life and professional life played out in the same way.

Srini Rao: Did they encourage any particular career paths based on their own experience? Because as the joke goes for Indian people, it's doctor, lawyer, engineer. If you want a good life, that's pretty much it. Like our future is limited to three options by the time we're 15. I knew, oddly, because I feel like most people don't decide what they want to do and actually end up having that be their career path, but by the time I was 14, I knew what I wanted to do.

Kimi Culp: I wanted to tell stories and I wanted to tell stories about real people. I couldn't articulate it that way, but I was writing for the school newspaper. I was obsessed with photography. If I was asked to do a research paper, I would convince that I should do a presentation with photography and video to tell the narrative.

And I think for the most. Most part, they stood back and let us do our thing. So I don't ever remember feeling there's only one path to success, if that makes sense.

Srini Rao: Yeah, absolutely. I want to dive deeper into this idea of not having a typical brain as a fellow non neurotypical person.

I had a fourth grade teacher and I just, I wrote about an article about this recently about the long and short term consequences of being undiagnosed with ADHD. And I had Jesse Patel, the founder of workflow here. And by the time he was 13, I think he said he had been kicked out of multiple schools and it was just the bad kid.

And his dad happened to be a physician and was like, I think you have ADD. Do you want to take something for it? And he goes from being the kid who's been kicked out of multiple schools to getting into Stanford. And realizing that, wait a minute, I am smart, my brain just works differently. And when my fourth grade teacher and all of all the things I could have been failing, I was failing at reading, which is really ironic considering what I've done for a living.

Like when you figured this out what was the sort of response from your parents? And more importantly, like, why is it that we leave so many people behind when it comes to this? Because I feel like our school system fails people. Who are not neurotypical.

Kimi Culp: It's so true. Like the notion that somehow all our brains work the same, right?

We're all sitting at a class looking forward and everyone's brain works the same. It's like when you think about it, it's ridiculous. So I was never diagnosed and this is fascinating. So I have three kids and my middle daughter for good or for bad is a lot like me. And It was when we were trying to figure out her brain and how she learned.

And they diagnosed her with a visual processing disorder and they were explaining to me how to use a word window because the just seeing all the black and white on a page is jumbled and the word window highlights line by line. To this day. I cannot read a book. I can't do it. My brain can't decode it.

I am constantly consuming audiobooks, never not immersed in a book. And when I saw the lines highlighted, I was like, Oh my gosh, like I could have been able to read had it been presented to me in this way. And so I was never diagnosed until I diagnosed my daughter and realized that there would have been, so all the modalities we taught her and I learned to teach her just completely lit up my brain like, but not until I was in my forties.

Srini Rao: I can relate I wasn't diagnosed until I was 28, I think if I remember correctly. And I think it was not a coincidence that after I got diagnosed, I remember calling a friend, I was like, what would you say if I told you that I might have ADHD? He said, I wouldn't be surprised at all. He said when you come to visit, it's like a tornado has been through my house.

I find stuff left behind for months. But and I I contrast that story with Jesse Patel and I'm just like, wow, I always wonder, I remember the reason I wrote that article is I was talking to one of my readers and we both joked about the fact that can you imagine what we would have accomplished if somebody had actually figured this out sooner?

Kimi Culp: I think it's so interesting because I've gone back, I didn't do well academically. I was mostly a C student at best. But I think I compensated I wanted to participate I wanted to be contributing, be doing well, be doing interesting things, but I just couldn't pull it off academically at all.

So I leaned into all these other things. I was starting clubs, I was doing photography with the school newspaper. And so I've had the same question that you had okay what if I had figured it out, but I wonder if I had figured it out if I wouldn't leaned in to all of those aspects that developed for me, like creatively and as a leader.

So it's interesting because I think sometimes our perceived setbacks foster other strengths within us.

Srini Rao: Yeah. Oh, without a doubt. I think that somebody had asked me once like, why did you end up going down this path? I was like like a lot of people have this moment of disillusionment after they climbed the corporate ladder or whatever.

I was like, that's not my story. I started this path because I didn't have any other alternative. Yeah. I had no other way to do this. So one thing I think that really struck me was that you said you knew at 14 what you wanted to do. And we're talking earlier about sort of career paths and the Indian parent narrative of doctoral or engineer.

And I feel like in one way our school system perpetuates this sort of you need to know what you want to do with your life narrative. And I always say, how the hell can you know what you want to do with your life when you've only lived a fraction of it yet? You seem to be like one of those rare few who knew this early.

And my sister was like that. She knew, I think at age seven, she's I'm going to be a doctor. And she knew it. And I feel like so many people commit to paths they know nothing about only to wake up one day and realize they hate the life they've built for themselves. It's. It's still fascinating to me that I, because I've grown so much as a person and I look back at that time in my life and not to say I was pretty broken.

Kimi Culp: I think most that's a tricky, tough age, right? Early teen adulting. That's an

Srini Rao: understatement. That's like the part of life. that you hope to never revisit again. Nothing sucks more than being a teenager

Kimi Culp: in my nothing sucks more than being a teenager. But I don't look back on being a teenager and remember feeling very confident in myself, sure about my path ahead.

But I did stumble upon this thing I love and going back to what we've talked about a few times now, this different, unique brain, how it all played out is. We, I was asked to do a, at the time the HIV and AIDS crisis was exploding and there was a lot of narrative around it. So I was asked to do a report in a, in one of my classes.

So I went to my teacher and said, instead of doing a traditional research report, I want to go out and interview people. So I actually went out and interviewed people living with HIV and AIDS. And I, it took the video, showed the video and talked about it in front of my class. And I was so Looking back felt so alive in that process, like you said at the beginning I just realized my innate curiosity about human beings and understanding them.

And now it makes even more sense. My innate curiosity about understanding human beings suffering and enduring and what that looks like. And so I literally think it was that specific project subconsciously it was like, okay this is what I want to do. And yeah, so all these years later, still telling stories and I've done it in lots of different ways.

This ACAST podcast is sponsored by NetSuite. 36, 000, the number of businesses which have upgraded to the number one cloud financial system NetSuite. By Oracle. 25. NetSuite just turned 25. That's 25 years of helping businesses streamline their finances and reduce costs. One. Because your unique business deserves a customized solution.

And that's NetSuite. Learn more when you download NetSuite's popular Key Performance Indicators Checklist. Absolutely free. At netsuite. com slash optimize. That's net suite dot com slash optimize. The right shoes can take an outfit from good to great. Allbirds elevates your everyday style with timeless comfort and supreme versatility.

Like they're all new courier, a shoe with nods to a classic silhouette for undeniable appeal and made from 100% organic cotton. The Allbirds courier is a natural classic shoe that keeps up with every step you take throughout your day and night. It's clean, retro silhouette keeps things casual, while the intricate details give it enough oomph to wear out and about.

It's the sneaker that feels like you're walking on air. And at the Allbirds Innovation Lab, they're doing all the science y stuff, like research and testing, to create shoes from natural, sustainable materials, like leather made from plants, sugar cane, and tree fibers. Materials. So natural one might even say they're supernatural.

Everyday comfort delivered. Allbirds all new courier. Elevate your supernatural style@allbirds.com today and use code sock style for free socks with your purchase. That's A L B i R d s.com code sock style.

Srini Rao: You mentioned you have three parents and or three kids, I'm sorry, . And if you had to create. A system that allowed for people to discover that when they were young. What would you change about the way that we educate people so that they would have the experiences you have? Because me getting here was largely accidental and that has its pros and cons.

Like I, Robert Greene once said to me, he's no experience in your life should be thought of as wasted. And there's definitely a grain of truth to that. I see now that. All the things that I've done have led me to where I'm at. And yet there's this part of me that says, you know what, if somebody had figured this out sooner I wouldn't have spent 10 years of my life getting fired from every damn job I ever had.

Kimi Culp: I think it goes back to this idea of diversity, right? And I have never, I always felt lesser than, not enough in academic settings. Still, even in my professional life, I would find myself being part of a team and everyone's Oh, I went to Brown. I went to Stanford. It's barely made it through Boulder.

But this now I know myself to be a really intelligent. And I think this idea that there's lots of different ways to learn and there's lots of different ways to be to contribute to the world with your mind and with your intelligence. I think people learn through travel, people learn through food, people learn through intimate conversations, people learn through books.

And there isn't only one path. So I think if there was an opportunity to see where do you feel lit up, where does your brain and your heart feel up? So let's dive into that as a process of learning would have been in my case, I think I was trying to find those paths through photography, through interviewing.

But what if that was an option for all of us to explore how we learn and have opportunities to learn and to grow and explore within those ways. So I don't I have not worked out in the two minutes I shared that with you how that would. Be feasible, but I think it would be pretty incredible

Srini Rao: in the middle of Matthew Perry's new biography, and he's talking about fame, and it's funny because you hear this over and over from famous people.

It's like fame doesn't heal the wounds that you think it will. And the only people who understand that are people who are famous and people who are not just can't comprehend that idea. They think that being famous will solve all their

Kimi Culp: problems. I think I'm not, this is not unique to me, but my narrative of not enough started at a really young age.

And I was for many years convinced that I would be enough if I my pursuits were always pre creative pursuit, sorry, my pursuit my pursuits were always creative pursuits, but that if I got into Sundance then I would be enough, right? This would be incredible. Then I would have a film and.

Again the fulfillment, it was elusive. It never came. And that that lesson takes time, but is in a bizarre sense comforting and freeing when you realize that truth.

Srini Rao: I can relate. I think in my head, it was always, Oh, my parents won't think I'm just screwing around the internet when I get a book deal.

When I do this it's like wall street journal, bestselling book that was self published. Nope. Didn't do

,

it. Book deal with a publisher. Didn't do it. Yeah. Round of venture funding. Nope. I still insecure about this. It just blows my mind that I've been at this for 10 years and I still have questions about this.

And I don't think I've resolved this yet for myself. But that feeling of not enough, like where did that come from for you? How did you begin to unwind the narrative and how do other people identify where it came from? And more importantly begin to unwind that narrative. It's

Kimi Culp: still I think it's pretty much I would imagine a very shared human emotion, this notion of not enough, but I feel like I've been particularly gifted or plagued with it.

And the interesting thing about that is it has always, now I understand it to be a huge part of my drive. Like you said, right? Okay if I accomplish this, if I excel at this level, then I will prove to myself and prove to the world that I am in fact in that. So after years of therapy, I don't know if I can precisely answer your question when it began.

And maybe it does go back to childhood feeling like academically, I wasn't enough. I always felt like I wasn't tall enough. I wasn't smart enough. And so I guess perhaps prove I wasn't athletic enough. So proving my value and other ways came something that I was To some extent, relentless about

Srini Rao: I think it's fascinating because you talked about how it's part of your drive.

And I think we both have that in common. I always tell people, I don't care about growing an audience for the size of the audience. It's not about that. It's about. One, just proving to myself that I can do it and having some sort of impact on the world and having the ability to shape and influence culture like it's all these other things.

But you're right, there is a part of it that is absolutely driven by this need, the sense that I'm not enough in some way or another, not enough for my parents, not enough for some girl that I want to date, not enough for anybody. I as I'm reading this Matthew Perry book, I keep thinking to myself here's a guy who has spent his whole life feeling like he's not enough.

And the dark side of it is it drove him to drugs and alcohol. I think that achievement can be in its own kind of addiction. And I remember I, I felt this I wrote an article about this at a friend who told me. He's I think you're addicted to achievement. And I never saw that as a bad thing. I come from the Indian culture.

It's like ambition is not frowned upon. But there's this darker side to it that I don't think we ever acknowledge. So where's the this is where I'm going with this. Like, how do you find that balance between fulfillment and ambition? It's such a

Kimi Culp: good question because I genuinely feel fulfilled by my work.

I like you, I feel like it's aligned with my intentions, right? I want to make a positive dent. I want to create meaningful. Work that ignites people or inspires people to think differently about themselves about each other. So when I lean into that piece of it versus if the podcast grew to this level or well, if the film had won this.

So it's, I don't know, maybe it's like small brain, big brain. Like, when I'm not thinking in that smaller way, and I can actually let it sink in that this works. matters and it's aligned with my values and what I want to contribute to the world. But to be honest I gotta, I have to work for that.

Cause I can live in the place of if only I achieved, or if it, or if my audience was this size, then it would be. So that's not a, not an easy cognitive process for me. I tend to, I think, vacillate in the wrong direction. You and I both I can relate. This is why I have to, I've basically stopped using social media.

Srini Rao: Like I, I had to put in all these mechanisms, my friends like, you don't check the sales of your books or your rankings. I was like, no, because that's a recipe for anxiety and disappointment. Because it just leads to endless comparison. It's Oh, why is my friend right at holiday selling a million books?

I'm like, because he's a better writer, obviously, which he is, my

peace with the fact that I'm not going to be any of those people. Like it's taken me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I will never be able to write in the way that many of my guests do. They're better at certain things and most of them probably couldn't host the show.

Kimi Culp: Yeah. And it's like I've been very project based and my I obviously for a while worked with networks and media companies, but then I think I've found my rhythm and flow independently doing creative projects.

But every time, and these are projects that take years and days and hours show up. Every time when it's over, I wake wake up and immediately it's what's next. What's next? What am I versus as we said, just letting it all sink in the process, the contribution.

Instead, it's this relentless pursuit of what can I do next to, to prove to myself the enough, the enoughness. Yeah.

Srini Rao: Yeah. Speaking of work, you alluded to the fact that you were at Boulder. I don't know if you knew this. I actually lived in Boulder for two and a half years. But what was the trajectory that led you down to doing all this media work?

Kimi Culp: I was a journalism major at Boulder, always focused on visual photography and video. And it was the last... It was, I was about to graduate my professor had been one of the earlier founding producers at CNN when CNN was brand new and based in Atlanta. And I was sitting in her class and she came in and said, there is a story breaking In Colorado they think it's a hostage situation, but the national media is flying out and CNN called and asked if I could bring some students to get there as soon as possible.

So I hopped in the car with my professor and we went and arrived at Columbine High School, which was one of the, obviously, largest massacres and school shooting in the country, certainly at that time. And we were one of the first to arrive. So I found myself on the lawn with families sitting there with them relaying information.

And, Eventually, the real journalists, quote unquote, came from all over the world and they hired us as interns. I don't think hired is the right word. I think we stayed and they gave us somewhere to sleep and food. From there I stayed and at the end they said if you want a desk assistant position in New York or DC we can try and help you get there.

Cause I had been working really hard for weeks on end with them. And that was the beginning.

Srini Rao: So as somebody who has had. Such a front row seat to media. This is something that I wonder about in our sort of world in which distant misinformation spreads and has serious consequences. And we have this fragmented media landscape with multiple versions of the truth. What do you think?

Is the responsibility of people who create media in the world that we live in today? I feel like then there was so much more integrity in journalism because it wasn't, there was a point in which I walked away from, in particular, working in news. Because it was almost as if conflict and tension started to sell, right?

Kimi Culp: There was this notion that if you create tension, it was when pundits came in. But before that, it was reporting in a responsible and fair matter as a service to inform. The country and the world actually to stand witness to it, right? And that became, I think with 24 hour news and like social media, it just has spun out of control.

And so talking about alignment with integrity, and I think if you're going to work exhausting hours to create content to put in the world, you better be damn well sure you feel good about that content. And I think traditional media, when it went in the direction of more opinion and tension, Versus observation and facts was no longer aligned for me.

And I think that's the landscape we're looking at today. Sadly I hope the pendulum swings in the other direction because it's really confusing as consumers of media about what's true and what's not.

Srini Rao: Yeah, absolutely.

Kimi Culp: This ACAS podcast is sponsored by NetSuite. 36, 000. The number of businesses which have upgraded to the number one cloud financial system.

NetSuite by Oracle. 25. NetSuite just turned 25. That's 25 years of helping businesses streamline their finances and reduce costs. One. Because your unique business deserves a customized solution. And that's NetSuite. Learn more when you download NetSuite's popular Key Performance Indicators Checklist.

Absolutely free. At NetSuite. com slash optimize that's NetSuite. com slash optimize.

Srini Rao: You hear that sound? It's the sound of a sale. You're missing out on because you're not selling on Shopify. And what does it sound like with Shopify? This is the commerce platform that's revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. When I was in college, I had so many ideas, but executing them was a different story because the resources were limited and the path to bringing those ideas to life was anything but clear.

If only a platform like Shopify had been around then, I could have transformed those ideas into reality with a lot less struggle. It's really remarkable to see how far we've come and how platforms like Shopify are empowering entrepreneurs to turn their visions into tangible businesses. So whether you're hustling from your garage or gearing up for an IPO, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run, and grow your business without the struggle.

Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. So whether you're selling satin sheets on Shopify's in person POS system, or offering organic olive oil on Shopify's all in one e commerce platform, you're covered. And once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the internet's best converting checkout to help you turn them from browsers to buyers.

Now let's talk about growth. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. It's not just about having an online store. It's about having a powerful platform that can scale with your ambitions. And Shopify powers 10% of all e commerce in the U.

S. and as a global force, powering big names like Allbirds, Rothies, and Brooklyn and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across over 170 countries. Plus Shopify's award winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. This is Possibility powered by Shopify. Sign up for a 1 per month trial at shopify.

com slash unmistakable, all lowercase. Go to shopify. com slash unmistakable to take your business to the next level. That's shopify. com slash unmistakable. Yeah as you were saying that I couldn't help but think of the show The Loudest Voice in the Room on Amazon. I don't know if you've seen that.

It's the show about how Fox News was built. Huh. And there is this scene, Russell Crowe plays Roger Ailes, where he talks about creating media in such a way that people will never change the channel. As a podcaster, it's naturally like I think about that and I actually went and read all of Roger Ailes books.

Like people are like, what's wrong with you? Like he stands for everything that you're against. I was like, yes, but I

Kimi Culp: need to understand you. Yes, I need to

Srini Rao: understand. I, my attitude towards things like that has always been, I will not write off the value of a message. Because I don't agree with the messenger or because I don't like the messenger.

And as an example, recently I had we did an entire series on cults and we had a NXIVM member and a few days ago, a NXIVM member who actually had a positive NXIVM experience emailed me and he was like, would you be willing to have me on the show? And I said, yeah, absolutely. Because I do want to hear the other side of the story.

Yeah. My side of the story that I've told has been the awful side. But here's a guy who had Tourette's cured. And he said that his story wasn't given enough visibility. And he said, I know you're nuanced about your conversations and I'm thinking you'll be open minded enough to hear the story. I was like, I'm absolutely open minded enough.

I don't necessarily think it would make Keith Ranieri here on my eyes, but I want to hear what this guy's experience was. Yeah. Like it informs you in a deeper, richer and of all the perspectives. So you can be more informed for your truth and yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.

I know from your background that you went from that to, I don't know if there's something in between, but I know you went to go work

Kimi Culp: for Oprah. Yeah, correct. I did. Obviously, that's quite a contrast from news to

Oh, yeah. So it was I often talk about this.

Since we're talking about Oprah, I'll call it an aha moment because she coined that phrase, right? But this sort of light bulb moment where I went to work for Oprah, I was based on the West Coast, but I was flying back and forth to Chicago. We were developing story ideas. I was initially brought in on the story development team, which means like stare at a white board and come up with ideas of what shows and guests and can be.

And we're pitching ideas, and one of the bosses says, which is this I'm new to the show and the culture. What is your intention in telling that story? And I was like, Oh my, I have never been asked that. I have never been asked that. And I had worked for the major networks, told stories.

For that were went out to millions of people on a daily basis and that pause of well, what is the intention? What do you want people to feel? What do you want people to and so that was like mind blowing for me and now it seems so obvious, but I was relatively young and just that pause of thinking through the intention was like, why is this the first time that I've been asked that or that I didn't come up with I didn't get that connection on my own.

So yeah it was pretty incredible experience. Obviously there was Unlimited budgets, lots of big dreams that were executable with a lot of support. Big visions for crazy things that we pulled off and it was fun.

Srini Rao: Yeah. The reason I wanted to talk about that is I feel like so many people.

We particularly in the spaces that you and I plan over is the gold standard by which they measure themselves by where it's I remember hearing a podcast host told me they wanted to become the next Oprah and you may have heard it WB easy in Chicago did this podcast on the making of Oprah.

And the thing that stood out to me most about that entire series was one thing that they said. They said that today's media landscape does not allow for another Oprah to be created. It's simply not possible in such a fragmented media landscape. And I thought to myself yeah, that would make trying to become the next Oprah a stupid goal, which is already a stupid goal because you're you're not that person.

But the thing I guess I wonder is when we look at outliers, guy had, I wrote this other piece titled why outliers are actually lousy role models for most of us. Because we don't see the sides of the story that we can't replicate. We only see the good things and there's a lot of survivorship bias and a whole other host of cognitive biases in these stories.

Which is, I think one of the reasons to me, like what I'm trying to do is find relatable models of possibility. And that was the one thing I saw with Oprah and over and over again, because I've had some guests that have been on Oprah as well. And I thought to myself some of these people are so far removed from where the average person is at that they're not able to, they're inspiring, but not relatable.

Yeah. How do we use people like this as a role model without having unrealistic expectations and letting our ambition take us down this dark hole of not feeling like we're enough? Because if you've got to be Oprah to feel

,

like you're enough that's going to be a lifetime of feeling like you're not enough.

Kimi Culp: Yeah. Ideally we. Move closer to seeing our own value as unique beings and you're right. Like the notion of success being that you are someone else when you break it down, clearly doesn't make a lot of self, make a lot of sense. I think another way to think about it or approach it would be to.

Figure out the pieces of that person. So maybe it's one aspect of that person. I really value how she can own her spirituality and talk about that in a way that's unfiltered and real. Or I really value the way that she uses media and content to illuminate issues or how she merged philanthropy and cause and story.

So maybe versus saying, I want to be like this, like getting really intentional and specific about your aspirations about that person. What does that reflect in me that I value? I think that seems like a smarter path if we're looking at it. Big role models in society is what specifically and how can you look at that as a bit of a guidepost or a North star to say, I want to grow in that way because it's really appealing for me and really aligned for me.

Srini Rao: The thing that I think strikes me most is when Oprah herself, but even the guests on there these people are at the top of their game in every way. And I'm guessing much like myself, you probably recognize patterns. I think pattern recognition is an inevitable consequence of doing this kind of work.

You have a thousand conversations with people from every walk of life. You start to notice patterns. What about you? What were the patterns that you've noticed that enable these people to do what they do at the level they do it? Yeah. I think they all have teams around them. So I think the illusion that they're somehow superheroes, yeah, and superhumans is categorically false.

Kimi Culp: I think there are, I keep using the word alignment who is not always aligned with there was many guests that are really well known household names around the world, but when the camera's on are very different than when the camera's off, right? So I think that alone, but I think they, they surround themselves with smart, hardworking people.

I think they all are relentless in their pursuits. They work incredibly hard at what they do in their craft. So I think there's a huge amount of commitment and dedication and surrounding themselves with smart, capable people who share in their vision of success and contribution.

Srini Rao: Going back to this theme of enough, did you ever feel like you noticed that any of them are driven by a sense that they're not enough?

Kimi Culp: Oh a hundred percent the amount of insecurities and humanness, right? The idea that somehow these people aren't human, but I I, it was actually, I think in an article that, that Oprah said, or I don't know, maybe she said it at a team or company meeting, but this idea that she had interviewed people from kindergartners to presidents.

Yeah. Yeah. And almost everyone on that stage said the same thing after, which was, did I do okay? Or was that all right? At the ending of the interview, and from having guests on your podcast or how you feel when you're interviewed, I always get the email after and I'm like, was that all right?

Did I do? And it's just, it's fricking universal.

Srini Rao: It's fascinating to me that you talked about the idea that who we see when the cameras are rolling are not the people we see when they're not. And I've been on a reality TV show and I it's funny, Kelly Newport was joking. So we didn't get authentic Srini. I was like, no, you've got Srini who is mindful of the fact that he's a public figure.

And if he looks like an idiot in front of a million people, it's going to

Kimi Culp: matter. Yeah. Duh. Yes. It's so true. It's so true. So true.

Srini Rao: Yeah. Cause I think there's this idea that I had this conversation with Tim John and he titled the episode. We don't want a hundred percent authenticity with this author named Steve Goldstein here who actually worked on the Oprah team for a while too.

And he wrote this book. I don't remember the exact title. I remember the subtitle. It's about how the most powerful people from Washington to Hollywood to wall street get us to like them. And one of the things that he talked about was this idea of authenticity and how it's so misunderstood. Because I realized I was like, the audience doesn't give a damn about your problems.

They want you to solve theirs. And you don't, I, this is another thing I had a mentor once this was right after a really bad breakup and I was just throwing out the deep end and when you have a public presence and you're broadcasting your bullshit, that's not good for business. And I remember telling him, yeah, Greg, but I'm human too.

And his response was, yes, Trini, you don't get to make that excuse. That was harsh, but you know what? He was right.

Kimi Culp: Yeah, that's a powerful statement. You don't get. I love that.

Srini Rao: You don't. You don't get to make that excuse. When you're in the public eye, your personal life is basically not of any concern to the public and you have to basically separate the two no matter how screwed up you feel about something.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it just makes me think like we don't see what's really going on behind the microphones, behind the cameras or any of the things in these people's lives. So true. So true. What are the darker sides of these people that we don't see, the things that might surprise us? The darker sides.

Kimi Culp: I think that all of us, there is. A diversity of personality and ways of being, and it was really illuminating to what you just said to see the truth of that, right? So there was, I'll talk about Forrest Whitaker for an example. I think I'm okay highlighting the positives. I interviewed Forrest Whitaker a few times while I was working for Oprah.

And Forrest Whitaker was the type of person who, while he was sitting down and we were adjusting the lighting and the audio and getting everything, genuinely cared and was curious about the people in the room. So you would find him chatting with the sound engineer about, Do you have kids? Do you have engaging in such a real and kind and connected and meaningful way?

There were people who were horrendous. The entitlement, the to when no one was looking, when the cameras are off. So I think that was just totally fascinating to see. Especially because you got to see the juxtaposition, the comparison. You're like, holy shit, this person was just such an asshole and cameras on.

It was like, boom, game on. Let's do this and smile and charm. So I got to literally be a fly on the wall. And at the time we were interviewing rock stars and astronauts and actors and athletes and all of these. And you just got to see their human ness for good or for bad, and that is...

It's super interesting. And I, you talked about social media and like perceptions there. I do think it's given me a pretty like a filter of I truly understand that what is not reality. I truly understand.

Srini Rao: I'm glad you brought up the word entitlement because there was something I wanted to go back to that you had mentioned at the earlier part of our conversation. And that was that your mother was a social work. Yeah. And something that. I think I've become aware of over the last probably two or three years is that the conversations that I have with people on this show are relevant to people who are in a position of privilege.

And often I feel like when we look at self improvement or any of these sort of spiritual efforts, they largely are catered towards an audience of privileged people. Even though we don't want to admit that it makes us seem like assholes. But the truth is from what you're telling me and based on my background, we grew up in relatively privileged circumstances.

Absolutely. Yeah. So with that in mind, what did your mother teach you about privilege and your status in society? And what have you taught your kids about that? I went back back to When you asked me about my childhood and what was important in our house, and I brought up kindness, which sounds hokey, right?

Kimi Culp: Or, I guess now it's not as undervalued, but I truly believe Not I truly believe. I know that I grew up with parents who were just kind and respectful to people in the world. Obviously we all have our moments, but I think this idea of how we act when no one's looking and how we treat people as we move through the world, especially when those, People really don't have anything to offer us for lack of a better word there's lots of people who are nice to people they want to or need to be nice to, but aren't generally nice to the waitress or the checkout person.

And I think my parents really modeled those small acts on a daily and micro basis that, that build up your character and who you are. And and so I, I think. For my kids I have modeled that as well. I like to believe that they are kind and respectful to almost everyone they encounter.

Srini Rao: So you've gotten to do things that I think a lot of people dream about doing. Getting to work with iconic creatives like Oprah, getting to produce things that millions of people have seen, write books that hundreds of thousands of people have read. Going back to this whole theme of feeling like you're enough.

How has your personal definition of what it means to be successful changed with time and with age? I think living in a very authentic way. We didn't get into it with childhood, but a big part of my father's perpetual entrepreneurship was that he was undiagnosed. bipolar, had bipolar disorder and was undiagnosed until he was 50.

Kimi Culp: So I grew up with a very manic and a very depressive father. And he hit it once he was diagnosed and then it's hereditary. So I have bipolar disorder and hit it until about three or four years ago when I shared the diagnosis and the story of what it means to live with bi, Polar disorder on my podcast, and I feel like it has played a part in the art in both film and television and books and now the podcast.

And I don't know how to explain it other than it felt like this very dark secret that was actually fueling a lot of the work that I was doing. I think that the depression sort of fuels my compassion and empathy, which shows up in the work a lot. Sometimes the mania drives the productivity. And so there was something about the sharing of that.

Once I was. Super transparent and honest with myself in the world about that, that the work it clicks for me. And I don't know if that answers your question,

Srini Rao: it doesn't naturally, of course, it raises so I guess the two questions One, when it comes to bipolar disorder, what's the difference between sort of the reality versus the perception that we experience through media, through books we read?

And I can relate to that having gone through peer periods of depression in my life. I remember when I just crashed and burned after a breakup in 2014 doctors like you've had long term low grade clinical depression that went undiagnosed and she's and you just went from a series of extreme highs, which was like the year that like my life looked like it was taking off to a sudden series of extreme lows.

So everything just went to shit and it just. Didn't get better for six months, like to the point where I almost ran my business into the ground. But I also came out of the other side of that realizing that, okay people who have these issues are not crazy. And that this is very real. I'd so I did a podcast episode called Kimmy is not Carrie from Homeland.

Kimi Culp: And I don't know if you watched Homeland, but the I know this episode will most likely air later, but right now, Elon Musk and Yay, formerly known as Kanye West are both in the news and there is a lot of discussion about both of them Being manic depressive living with bipolar disorder. So that is showing up in really damaging Deeply damaging negative ways and so I think there's it's interesting to observe when you have a shared diagnosis, right?

And the negative implosion and the ramifications to almost feel like no, but that's not me. I don't want to share a label, right? I don't want people to think that is who I'm going to be because we share a diagnosis and we share a label. I think the portrayals are often public figures, they're often very exaggerate, not exaggerated because they are what they are but for other people living quietly with the illness, it's yet another reason you don't want to raise your hands and say, oh, me too, I'm also living with this because the perception is quickly gonna go to, is she batshit crazy?

Is she about to? implode. So yeah I certainly live on an emotional roller coaster at times like we all do. But I also live a meaningful life that I like most of the time. But that and going back to privilege. I have access to great psychiatrists, I've been on medication, I have access to great talk therapy, I have access to all sorts of modalities for self care, like taking workout classes or being able to do acupuncture, so I have a lot of things in my favor for living with this illness.

Srini Rao: How does it affect relationships with loved ones? I think it, it requires a certain amount of self awareness for the person living with bipolar disorder because you're sometimes your behavior isn't congruent with your, the person you want to be, right? And so I think for relationships, it requires a lot of patience.

Kimi Culp: So at, in a times, I think it's exhausting to be married with. Or to be in a relationship because when somebody else is on a rollercoaster and you're surrounded by their energy you're on it too, right? Yeah I think to be responsible in relationship and by the way, working relationships I'm actually working on a, on an article right now, on being self-aware about the impact on others.

Because when you're emailing people like. All night long, we should do this. And this is an idea. It may be a fabulous fucking idea, but you don't need to email the person four times in the middle of the night, and they wake up in their inbox. Even self awareness on that level. Yeah, I think it has an impact in All of your relationships.

Now, I want to balance that out to say that this is episodes. So there are long stretches again with self care, with medication and with therapy, where I feel very balanced pretty balanced in my body and in my relationships. But when there are episodes, there's an impact on all your relationships.

Wow. I feel like you and I could sit here and just talk for three or four hours. Because there's so many rabbit holes that we could explore and places we could go at this. But in the interest of time, I want to finish with one last question, which I'm sure you've heard me ask. What do you think it is?

Srini Rao: That makes somebody or something unmistakable.

Kimi Culp: I think figuring out what lights you up and stepping into that with your truest self.

Srini Rao: Amazing. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story and your wisdom and your insights with our listeners. Where can people find out more about you, your work and everything that you're up to?

Kimi Culp: You can find me at Kimmyculp. com. So it's K I M I C U L P dot com. And my podcast, which is All the Wiser Podcasts, wherever you get

Srini Rao: your podcast. And for everybody listening, we will wrap the show with that.