Listener Favorites: Meredith Fineman | The Art of Fearless Self-Promotion

Srini Rao: Laura, welcome to the unmistakable creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.


Laura Owens: Thank you so much for having me on today. I am thrilled to be here.


Srini Rao: Yeah, it is my pleasure to have you here. So as I was saying before we hit record here, I found out about your work because you wrote in, but as always with guests, I picked there's some method to this madness, which is only my curiosity.

And I read your about page and I think two things really struck me. One is that you actually host a podcast with your mom and two is that you have this immense love for horses. Always obsessed with people who are either good or obsessed with unusual things. But before we get into all of that, I want to start asking you, what did your parents do for work?

And how did that end up influencing shaping what you've ended up doing with your life and your career?


Laura Owens: It's been a pretty direct correlation. So my parents actually met when they were talk show hosts at the same radio station. My dad's been at the same station now for more than 50 years and my mom, Started working there when she was 18, so they met, they fell in love, they continued hosting radio shows, and somewhere along the way, I caught the bug, and I was trying to resist it for so long, but couldn't do it.

How old were you when that happened? When I first started to get into broadcasting myself. Yeah. I would always go on my dad's show for take your daughter to work day from the time I was maybe six on and I would go on there with my sister. She would do the vast majority of the talking because I was painfully shy, but I got interested in doing a show of my own actually just a few years ago maybe within the last four or five years.


Srini Rao: So while you're growing up anybody who does a creative career knows that it's fraught with uncertainty, no guarantees did your parents actually encourage this or did they suggest something more practical? And for your dad to have had the same job working at the same radio station for 50 years, that to me is somebody who is.

committed to craft in a way that so few people are, because 50 years nowadays is a lifetime. I always come back to what Sam Altman said in his startup school, where he said founders go into startups thinking that they're going to basically build this company and exit in three to four years and go count their cash on a beach somewhere.

But he said, the reality is a longterm view is your greatest competitive advantage. And he defined a longterm view as 10 years. And your dad has had a 50 year career. That's crazy. Yeah. In one field,


Laura Owens: and I think I grew up feeling like that was normal. That's what's so crazy is now that I've gotten to be older, and I grew up in the hub of the.com world and Silicon Valley, and I realize how crazy that is that most of my friends are with companies for a couple of years, or like you said, for the most 10 years.

But my dad's had this incredibly long career in the same field for the same radio station, and that's not normal. And that's something. That is definitely commendable. So the older I get, the more I appreciate that. But I don't think that they really pushed me one way or the other into broadcasting.

You would think that they would have pushed me. Towards it. That would have been my guess just because both of them did it. But they didn't necessarily do that. I think they wanted me to be a more outgoing person. And I think they thought in a sense that trying to be on the radio or do some sort of broadcasting would be a way for me to come out of my shell.

And I guess eventually it was.


Srini Rao: Yeah what did they teach you when you're growing up about craft and commitment? And how did your perception of what they taught you change with age? Because I think it's one thing for somebody to tell a kid Hey 10, 000 hours, whatever it is.

And of course you end up with overly ambitious helicopter parents too, as a byproduct of that. But I wonder that same advice would land differently with age, right? And so I wonder the things they have taught you about craft particularly in the arts and this given field of broadcasting what did they teach you when you were younger and how did your perception of that change with age?


Laura Owens: My parents, for as much as they were in the same field and involved in really the same topic of trying to talk about current events, had a very different approach to what they did. So I think I learned the craft in a couple of different ways and that my mom was always really hands on and she was the person who was wanting to do hours and hours of research and write out questions.

Whereas my dad was somebody who enjoyed watching the news. And reading online to find out the latest things going on in politics or celebrity gossip. And he just have these ideas off the top of his head. He wouldn't write things down. So I got to see two different approaches and it worked well for Both of them.

And then when I decided to get involved in broadcasting and went to both of them to see, Hey, what advice would you have? I found that I was naturally drawn a lot more towards my mom's way of thinking, because it made me feel like I couldn't get stumped if I had everything written down and if I knew everything about a person, I would be in a much better situation and that would make me less anxious.

But when I went to my first interview, I was so nervous. I did the interview at my dad's radio station in San Francisco and showed up with, I don't know, three pages of single spaced questions for this guest for a half an hour interview. It was crazy. And I went into the room and I'm setting everything up to do the interview.

And my dad comes in and I was like, Hey, what advice would you have? Do you want to see if what I wrote is okay. And he looks at my papers and he tore them up in front of me. And he's now you're ready to go. And I cried at the time. I was like, Oh my God, what did you just do? What did you just do?

And that was very extreme, what he did. And I. Definitely wouldn't thank him for that. But at the same time, I think about that example all the time to remind me that I don't need to rely on what is written and that I pretty much have the answers. and have the questions because I've done my research and I don't need to rely on a piece of paper.

But I also learned so much from my mom about how to do the engineering for the show. And my dad at this point still doesn't know the first thing about that. After that many years in the industry he wouldn't have a clue how to adjust volumes or even press play and record. So I'm lucky that my mom knew all that.


Srini Rao: Yeah. I have to ask about the kind of chemistry that happens on air with two people so much so that they end up getting married. What in the world led to that? I hear different versions of this story all the time. They actually didn't have a show together. They worked opposite shifts on the radio station with.


Laura Owens: My mom working morning drive and my dad worked nights. So I think they would just pass each other. And apparently they were the only two somewhat young people at the station. Like I mentioned, my mom was 18 when she started, and I know she was 19 when she sent my dad and my dad was 30. And I guess they just had some sort of chemistry and the same sense of humor that.

Drew that drew them to each other and they didn't date for the first year. I believe they were just good friends. And then one thing led to another and Yeah they got married, they had two kids, and even now you can see that they still have that banter back and forth and just a spark that, that is unique.


Srini Rao: So I have to ask, what do you think it is that makes that kind of a spark last for so long? I'm curious because this is a subject that I've researched endlessly and I'm still single. So this is just out of personal morbid


Laura Owens: curiosity. I was going to say, I don't know if I'm the right person to ask this.

I've been trying to figure that out myself as well. I think that what they have going that so many people are lacking is that they have, one thing is a shared history at this point, which I think makes a big difference. And I know we all can't start with that. So maybe that's not the answer you're looking for, but they do have that sense of humor, which.

The older I've gotten, the more I've realized how important of a factor that is, and I think they have very similar values and morals. They're different religions, and in a lot of ways I would say they're opposites, but they have, at their core, they're very similar. And I just see every day that they want to make each other better.

They want to make sure the other one's informed. They talk about current events all the time and try and stay relevant. And it's beautiful to see something like that, that has lasted so long. I want to come back to that, but I have to ask you about this love affair that you have with horses.


Srini Rao: That seems like a very strange backdrop for everything else going on here, particularly in the heart of Silicon Valley where you grew


Laura Owens: up. Oh, isn't it just the weirdest thing. And it's even weirder because I grew up in San Francisco proper. So I grew up. Yeah. Yeah. The last place you would ever think that people would ride horses and there was one stable in the city.

That I went to a summer camp at when I was eight years old and my love for horses just started then and I was the most fearful rider you could ever imagine. I don't think I got on the horse for the first year, but for some reason I was just determined to learn how to do this and. I spent all my time researching about horses and watching videos and doing everything I could to try to learn how to overcome this fear that I had of riding and try to figure out some way to.

Just figure out how to be with these animals that I so badly wanted to have a relationship with. And so as the stable closed, I ended up having to drive further and further out to pursue that passion. To the point where now I spend easily two hours a day in the car. Going to see the horses every single day.

And it blossomed into this huge passion that became a business that I run with my mom. In addition to the podcast, we have a business buying and selling horses and I compete almost every week. Even with COVID it's starting to be back to normal a little bit, but yeah, it's an obsession. It's not even just a passion.

It's an obsession. I don't even know what my life would look like without the horses.


Srini Rao: Okay. So the way that you talk about horses sounds a lot like the way that I've talked about surfing and snowboarding. What is it like, what happens when you get on a horse that makes it this way for you? Or for anybody and what is it like, what are the things that we don't know?

Cause to me, like I see horses and I think Zorro, like that's my extent of my understanding is old movies where people are riding horses and fighting on swords and all sorts of crazy shit like that. But you obviously have your firsthand experience with it. So what is it that draws people to horses, the way that you're drawn to it?

What is the feeling of it? When you're on a horse,


Laura Owens: I don't even know if I would say that it's something you feel as a whole with every animal that you get on so much as it is learning each horse's personality and then realizing they have their quirks and they have their strengths. And you get to work together to figure all of that out together.

And it's really building a partnership with an animal that you can't talk to. They can't talk back and you're trying to figure out how to do things that are crazy together. I jump horses. And so the idea that two different beings. And go around and jump a course of jumps that make it look easy when they really can't communicate is just.

beautiful and it's amazing and every horse is so different. And that's really what the challenge is for me that after all these years, it's not like you can have it figured out on all horses. You can't even have it figured out on one. Even my long term partners, I still learn so much about them all the time, but they're just fascinating and they're really unique.

On the ground to when you're just hanging around them, they're really funny. My family's had the same pony. This is like a pet. It's not an investment that I've had since I was a little girl. And she's hilarious. She's still makes me laugh every day.


Srini Rao: So this might be a weird question, but you take the ability to communicate with an animal who can't talk back.

I wonder how that influences your ability to communicate and connect with people in your life.


Laura Owens: That's really interesting. And I've actually never thought about it that way. But I think it's made me a better listener. I also have a real passion for rescuing senior dogs who, gosh, you wish you could understand what their story was before they came to you, especially since so many of them were abused, but yeah, it does make you a better listener and I think you have a curiosity about what happened to you and why did you become the way you were?

And you're never going to hear the answer, but. It's interesting to try and figure it out on your own. Walk me through the trajectory of that first spark of falling in love with broadcast journalism to what you're doing today. What was the path to getting here?

I really would not have had any interest in doing a podcast of my own were it not for an experience that I had in an abusive relationship that made me really try to figure out Who I was as a person and have this obsession with trying to become a better person and I turned to all these podcasts and books on self help, self improvement and entrepreneurship books.

Just trying to figure out how to be a more successful and happy person. And it was from becoming obsessed with those things that. I decided I wanted to figure out how I could put my own take on it and help other people figure out how to get out of similar situations. I want to go deeper into this.


Srini Rao: So one, I wonder how your parents relationship influenced your own relationship choices. And I know when you wrote in you said a lot of people are often in abusive situations without even realizing it. How do we even get in, how do you find yourself in such a situation like that? Cause you don't seem like a likely person to end up in an abusive relationship.


Laura Owens: I don't and I've gotten this question a lot and it's very difficult to answer because I don't know the answer myself. I can only speculate as to why. I think that I've always been somebody who has tried to see the best in people and has been Very innocent in a lot of ways in terms of just thinking that people will do the right thing.

And if you treat somebody well, that they're going to treat you well back. And in the situation that I was in with my relationship, things just. Seem to happen slowly. Things seem to change slowly. I became abused slowly. And so when you look at it day to day, it didn't seem like there was a very big change, but when I look back at it, I see how crazy it really was.

And I wonder, God, how did it go from this great relationship? Or so I thought to something that ended up being almost deadly. And you really. Can't get the answer to that and it's just so frustrating to try and even think about it

This episode is brought to you by progressive most of you


Srini Rao: aren't just listening right now You're driving cleaning and even exercising. But what if you could be saving money by


Laura Owens: switching to progressive drivers who save by switching


Srini Rao: save nearly? 750 on average and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts Multitask right now.

Quote today at Progressive. com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company


Laura Owens: and Affiliates. National average 12 month savings of 744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings


Srini Rao: will vary.


Laura Owens: Discounts not available in all states and situations.


Srini Rao: These


Laura Owens: days, every new potential hire can feel like a high stakes wager for your small business.

You want to be 100 percent certain that you have access to the best qualified candidates available. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team, faster and for free. Post your job for free at linkedin. com hardwork. That's linkedin. com slash hard work to post your job for free terms and conditions apply.


Srini Rao: Hey everyone. I want to take a moment to talk about something that has been a game changer for me recently. It's called MindLift, a neuroscience based personalized brain training app. I've been using MindLift for a while now and it's like getting a peek under the hood of your brain. I've done several neurofeedback sessions so far and it's been a really eyeopening experience and it's actually really fun.

It's almost


Laura Owens: like playing a video game, but the game is your


Srini Rao: brain and the goal is to improve your focus and relaxation. Each


Laura Owens: session is a 30 minute


Srini Rao: training that's customized for you based on a neurofeedback specialist evaluation. And I was able to knock out 8 out of 13 tasks on my


Laura Owens: to do list in about 2 hours.

And that's the kind

of


Srini Rao: focus and productivity I'm talking about when you


Laura Owens: use something like MindLib. But why should you trust MindLib? It's trusted by clinicians worldwide, and it's used by top athletes. You might have seen it featured in the


Srini Rao: popular Netflix show, Quarterback. MindLib, the entire program is customized for you by your own expert


Laura Owens: neurocoach.

So how does it work? MindLift uses brain sensing technology and games and videos that correspond to your brain activity so that you can achieve better focus and calm. Using a smart headband, MindLift measures your brain activity and gets you on a personalized routine to sharpen your mental fitness.

And here's the best part. You can do it while watching your favorite Netflix show on your phone. It's like leveling up your brain while you chill out. I can't imagine anything better than that. To start your brain health journey, you register online to receive your kit, run a brain health check, meet with a neuro coach to set


Srini Rao: up the program,


Laura Owens: start using your personalized training by playing games or watching videos that respond to your brain activity, and meet your neuro coach on a monthly basis.

MindLift's data driven approach ensures tangible results. Recurring brain checks generate vivid brain maps, revealing targeted areas for your unique training. And a dedicated neurocoach designs your exclusive program, which evolves based on evidence of progress, guaranteeing continual brain improvement.

Last year, they published a peer reviewed study in over 580 subjects showing efficacy in improving attention and reducing stress. It's also trusted by over 22,


Srini Rao: 000 members and thousands of clinicians worldwide. I highly recommend giving MindLift a try. And here's the best part. You can start your personalized program at MindLift.

com. Slash creative and get 40 off your first subscription. Again, that's mind lift. M Y N D L I F T. com slash creative for 40 off your first subscription. Let's talk


Laura Owens: about aging. It's inevitable, right? But what if I told you there's a new way to age led by Solgar cellular nutrition? They believe, and I do too, that you can transform the way you age, cell by cell, with the power of cellular nutrition.

As we age, our cellular function declines. Your regular multivitamins and minerals might not be enough to combat these age related declines, and that's where Solgar Cellular Nutrition comes in. It's formulated with targeted cellular nutrients that work with your body's natural processes deep inside your cells to help you fight cellular decline


Srini Rao: and promote cell health across three benefit areas.

It supports cell energy, repair, and vitality,


Laura Owens: muscle strength, and even glutathione production to help


Srini Rao: protect cells. So let's own our healthy


Laura Owens: aging narrative. Visit CellularNutrition.


Srini Rao: Solgar. com to


Laura Owens: learn more. Again,


Srini Rao: that's CellularNutrition. Solgar. com to


Laura Owens: learn more. Solgar Cellular Nutrition. We go cell deep.

These


Srini Rao: statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug


Laura Owens: Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent


Srini Rao: any disease. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you even get out of the situation like that? Outside of ending the relationship, because I know there are people what I've heard even in COVID, like abusive relationships are really struggling because a lot of these people don't even have anywhere to go because of the current situation we're in.

And also What role did your parents play in helping you get out of this?


Laura Owens: Yeah, that's what's really sad is with COVID right now, I've been really interested in hearing about how many women are struggling even more because now they're with their abuser all the time. And if they had friends who were maybe looking out for them and could see how their body language was and how they were reacting in person, they can't tell that.

On the phone or even in a zoom call in the same way and I think one of the keys to getting out of a relationship like this Is that you need to have somebody around you who notices changes in your Behavior, I think that was something that was really key for me My parents actually did not know anywhere near the extent of the abuse until I was out of the relationship and I had gone to the police.

They had no idea, but I did have a couple of friends who knew and who were able to see that I was becoming fearful and in my relationship it involves stalking as well. And I was really paranoid about where the guy would show up. He was showing up at. A lot of places I was at and my personality was changing.

So I think that was a real way for them to figure it out. And I think that another really scary thing that I've thought about with COVID relationships, sorry to take it back to that is I've wondered to myself, say, these women do want to get out and they want to get help. I just don't even know how they would take the first step because if they're if their partner is monitoring their phone or If they're reading their text messages, it's not like you can text one of these groups that can try and help you I feel just so sorry for women who are dealing with this right now And that's one silver lining to being silver to being single during all of this I guess Is that I don't need to worry about that.

But yeah, I think that I knew if my parents were to know the extent of what was going on, especially with them living in the same city, they lived like 15 minutes from me, I thought that they would try to I don't know, I had this idea that they would try me, try to force me to end the relationship and I didn't want that.

So I think that's why I kept it private from them. And I still wanted them to think that the guy was really a great guy. I don't know why I did though. So you, so did you just to clarify, you didn't want to end the relationship or you didn't want them to tell you to end the relationship?

I didn't want them to tell me to end it, but at the same time, I was also in that abused mentality.

Of thinking that somehow I had done something wrong and I deserve to be abused and I was desperate to be in this relationship, which I know that sounds really messed up, but that's where I was. So when you come out of something like this how do you, one, how do you heal? But even more importantly, how do you begin to trust people enough again to open yourself up to the possibility of something better?


Srini Rao: Because I'd imagine that this probably has done a number like going into any date, any situation with this as your backdrop, it must create challenges that the average person doesn't necessarily have.


Laura Owens: It really does. And it's actually been a real, I don't know, it's been a real journey for me since then to trust people.

Like you said, it's been very difficult. And so what I try and do, I have this journal that I keep of just random. Moments of kindness that I've seen from people to remind myself that people can be really good and they can be who I thought that this guy was when I first met him. And for example, on the day that I decided to leave the relationship and get help from the cops who were, another story, not very helpful when I decided to seek out help I, Found just the absolute best in people from a woman's organization, a woman's shelter who were so kind and helpful.

And they said that there was going to be somebody else for me. And this guy was going to be some, somebody that. I would look back on it and say, thank God I didn't end up with him. And so I'm still waiting for that perfect one to, to show up still waiting. There, there have been, I, at the same time, I've had some relationships since then that have they've certainly been a lot healthier.

I think that it's just been harder for me to completely let my guard down, but I know that's, I know that's going to happen. Very soon. I'm working on it.


Srini Rao: I wanted to go back to what you said about the police not being helpful because I've heard that this is the case in not just abuse situations, but in numerous situations where law enforcement is effectively useless, even though that's their job.

And given what we're seeing in the news with law enforcement having had this experience, like what kinds of reforms do you think need to happen for people not to end up in situations like yours, particularly in the case of law enforcement? Because we've had a lot of people who've been law enforcement professionals here.

And I've also had people who've served time here. And the thing that you look at is. Just how screwed up the legal system is like I remember we had a criminal defense attorney who became a chocolate maker and he told me he said people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit all day long because if they don't.

They're going to end up with a much longer sentence simply because they can't afford the legal protection.


Laura Owens: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no it's completely crazy. What is going on obviously in today's world. And I think for domestic violence victims, it's really sad. And my experience opened my eyes up to what.

Actually goes on when you go and contact the cops for help on your own as a young girl. I thought it would be one of these things where I would go into the police station and they would be saying oh You poor thing we're gonna go and get him and we'll Help you in every way possible and that I would be believed and I had the absolute opposite experience I showed up to the police station Absolutely a mess.

I was in tears I was told I needed to fill out a form I was the only person in the police station and there were three people that were working behind the desk and i'm seeing These officers who are just messing around in the background And after an hour, I finally went up to the front and I said, Hey when is somebody going to come out and talk to me?

And they're like, Oh you need to wait. What was I waiting for? So finally somebody came out and It was some new cop who said to me, he read my form and it just sounded like the guy was an ass and offered me a ride home. And I was really surprised by that. And more than anything, I felt really hopeless because I thought if I'm not believed by the cops, then.

I don't have another option. I've done the most extreme thing. This is what I thought was betrayal to the guy. This was me being vulnerable and nothing happened. And that really needs to change because. Because you're going to have these victims who are going to be afraid to tell their stories and to be honest about what's going on.

So they're not going to come forward. And then you're going to have more instances of injuries, both emotional and physical. There is so much abuse that goes on emotionally in these relationships that I think can be a lot more damaging than the physical abuse. And... It needs to be something where we don't need to feel, this is something I've really felt is that there's an element of shame to being a domestic violence victim.

And not to get too honest here, but this has been something that I've had serious discussions with my mom about was when I decided to talk about my story to say what happened, she said, Oh you're going to have guys who aren't going to want to go out with you because they're going to think you come with baggage because of this.

That's exactly what needs to stop is people thinking that this is baggage. Why should the women be feeling or men can be victims as well, but why should the victim be feeling like they have this coat of shame to wear around because they tried to believe the best in somebody and were taken advantage of?


Srini Rao: Yeah. Wow. I asked you about how you start to heal and trust people. What I wonder also is I'd imagine this does a huge number on self worth and how do you begin to recover a sense of self worth when you've gone through something that has been so damaging to your self worth? I


Laura Owens: think, like I said, I watch a lot of TED talks.

I listen to a lot of podcasts. I don't have the answer for that yet. I do gratitude journaling. I just think a lot of the healing process for this has to do with coming in contact with people who you can trust and who have your best interest at heart and just realizing there are more of those than there are of people who are extreme abusers and it's an everyday struggle.

I know this because I've talked to other victims and every day struggle to try to move on from what happened, and I don't think there's such a thing as moving on completely, and I don't know if there really should be because it's such a part of you, and I think it's given me a sense of empathy for people that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Yeah.


Srini Rao: So this is, this might be an odd question, but what do you think men who are just average guys like me, who not abused anybody and have no intention, misunderstand just based on what we see in news and like what misperceptions about domestic abuse do you think the media creates?


Laura Owens: I think that, and this is what I'm going to answer this based on what I thought happened in domestic violence situations.

I always thought that the woman was weak. And I know that's what men think as well as that the woman was weak. And people always ask the question, why didn't she leave? So I think that you have these guys who are wondering if she's not damaged in some sort of way, why would she put up with that or is she a liar?

Did it really happen? Because. She shouldn't have stayed if it went to, if it was as bad as she said it was. And I think you have guys too who just think that the girls are going to carry the weight of this for the rest of their lives and want to be a victim, or in my case, want to be an advocate for victims and be very passionate about it.

And I think In a lot of ways, men want to show to their friends, their family, that they're with this perfect girl who doesn't have a past, even though the past is what adds a sense of depth and wisdom and character.


Srini Rao: So this is another question. So I think that. For me it's funny because we're talking about self improvement listening to podcasts. And I just published this piece on medium titled a skeptic's guide to a good life. And that literally came from a conversation I had with a friend who described unmistakable creative as a skeptic's guide to a good life, because I don't just want to take things at face value and let people spout inspiring bullshit without anything to back it up.

But. I think self improvement is one of those things that we resort to and sometimes to a point where it becomes just an obsession in and of itself that doesn't lead anywhere. So one, I'm curious to hear what you have to say about that, but another question around this is some people let their past inform their future.

Other people let it define the future. Why do you think that happens when, what do you think is the difference between those two


Laura Owens: people? Yeah. I want to answer that question first. I had a thought about it. I think that the difference between informing and defining is what you're you decide to do about it.

And it doesn't have to do with was the abuse worse for the person who allows it to define them versus the one who allows it allows their past to inform their future. I think that it has to be a really conscious Decision and one that involves so much bravery to say, I'm not going to let my Abusive relationship be the rest of my life.

Rather, I'm going to let it inform me. So I don't have, I'm not just this naive girl. Like I was in the past, but at the same time, I do understand people better. I have my guard up. You learn to trust your gut a little bit more and I've done it both ways myself. And I did let it define my future for really.

Too long, and that wasn't giving me great results. And to your other point, Listening to a lot of self help. A lot of it wasn't beneficial for me. A lot of it wasn't. I would have just people would make fun of me because I'd have a constant stream of positive talks and shows on. In my ear, I would be just listening on my AirPods while I was riding.

And when I was home, I would just have YouTube on in the background speeches by Matthew McConaughey, just all these different things on all the time to try and just put positivity into my mind. But I think you really need to find one person who resonates with you and really focused on what they have to offer rather than just listening to a ton of people and getting confused because they all really cancel each other out at the end of the day, or most of them do.

Yeah they all have. have been through something that's made them passionate about wanting to share their message with other people. But just because they have a good message and they've had an interesting past doesn't mean that it's yours.


Srini Rao: Yeah I really appreciate that because I think that I jokingly said I was like, if I could actually incorporate every piece of advice I've gotten from a podcast guest, I'd be a billionaire.

I'd have six pack abs and have a harem of women. But none of those things are true about my life like it's bizarre. And I realized at a certain point that when I was thinking about the people that I interview. that I had to take what I could from each one and come up with my own recipes using their ingredients.

And I think that there's so often this tendency, and I see this over and over in the world of self development, all of that is to treat guidance as gospel. Where we literally say, okay, this person has authority. This person is famous. This this person has status. So what they say suddenly becomes more credible.

And I should see that absolutely as word that I should trust. Anytime I hear the words, everybody should, I'm like, okay, right now, this is a, this is anytime somebody says that I think you should be skeptical. Because there's nothing that everybody should do.


Laura Owens: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that a lot of people that do have the tendency to worship these motivational speakers as gods and to an extent, I have done that and continue to do to some extent with Tony Robbins.

I think the world of him and I've gone to a bunch of his events. But Bye! Thanks for watching! And it's all the information is super fresh in my mind right after the events and maybe for a couple months after, but then I haven't been to one of his events in a year and a half at this point, and I feel like what I learned and how strong I felt after has largely dissipated, and that's been really disappointing for me and.

Trying to relive what I experienced at his conference hasn't, it doesn't help to just watch these videos online of what happens at the conference or to try to watch I Am Not Your Guru on Netflix. You can't really relive the moment and somebody like Tony Robbins, that's not the answer. It's not just one person.

That's the answer. I think he has a lot of great advice and I do watch him more than just about anybody else, but at the same time, he's not God and you're right. So we do worship these people unfairly in a lot of ways. I think that we overlooked the fact that they have character flaws and I, this is why I had to ask you this as somebody who was a victim of abuse in a relationship.


Srini Rao: When you see somebody like Tony comment on a Me Too moment, what do you think? Cause I know that really about a backlash. Oh, wow.


Laura Owens: Okay. Yeah. I was there at that conference with that. And I do think that was taken a little bit out of context. I wasn't so struck by what he said and angry. I know a lot of women were, but I think when the video came out and everything I think that woman wanted her 15 minutes.

I understood what Tony was saying and that it discredits a lot of people who really have been victims by everybody coming forward and saying that they were me too. If they really weren't and just say okay, somebody who had a. Their boss said that they look good in a dress or something like that to say that's to the extent of what I experienced of being suffocated and attempted drowning and everything.

It's not the same. And so that's where I think Tony's point was also that having a victim mentality. Is not beneficial to have all the time, and I actually learned that from him and to the extent that you don't have that have to have that happen, I think. It's good. I don't think the victim mentality helps people.


Srini Rao: Yeah. It's funny because you reminded me of a conversation I had with a dating coach that I worked with Nick Notice, who's also been a guest here. And I remember at the time we had him, like this was all starting to basically become very prominent in the media. And his clients said that like he literally was having trouble because his clients were terrified even to kiss somebody on a date because they were so afraid.

And he said the reality is, he said, if there's no initiation, he's you're not going to have relationships form without some semblance of intimacy. And that really always stayed with me because, and it even made me think back to like bad dates where I'm like you quite, you like many of my male friends were like, oh, we question our own behavior in certain moments.

It's damn, was that a moment in which we could have been accused of something. And something that's made humanity so beautiful has been the fact that intimacy comes naturally, and maybe it doesn't right now with COVID and everything and everybody keeping their distance and that's fine.


Laura Owens: But in the past, it's been really nice to spontaneously be able to. Yeah. Touch someone on the shoulder or give somebody a hug and not question yourself. And I think that's been really the shame of the me too movement and for guys like you and your friends and the Moments that really shouldn't be overthought have had to become Overthought and it just shouldn't be that way and I think some of the best moments that I don't know that i've had even in my Horseback riding relationship with my instructors have been when they've put their arm around me or they've put their hand on my knee when I'm on the horse about to go in and it's been moments that now somebody would probably say, Oh my gosh, that's inappropriate.

But it just made me feel supported.


Srini Rao: Let's just, I want to wrap up something a bit more lighthearted. You host a podcast with your mom and you mentioned part of what prompted this journey was the abuse situation. First, I have to ask you about the dynamics of hosting a podcast with a parent, because I think I would probably want to shoot myself if I had to host a podcast with my mom.

We would just be arguing the whole time. Yeah I think my mom and I. Had a lot of experience. Because my mom and I have just, we've naturally been close and she and I have had this whole experience since I was eight years old, doing the horses together. And since I was 16, having a business together, so we knew how to work together, but I have to be honest.


Laura Owens: It was not my idea at the beginning to work with her. I wanted to go and do a show, but I actually tested it out with a couple of male co hosts. And then my mom said to me. I think this would be a really interesting dynamic and I've wanted to get back into broadcasting. So why don't we try this and for the most part it goes well and that we have Our own roles with the show and we don't really step on each other's toes and we know those but to say that it's like a seamless process would be a complete lie and we I certainly have times when I get very angry and at her and it's difficult But luckily at the end of the day, we both have the same goal of just really wanting to bring a message of hope to people and being really on the same page.

In terms of the goal. So it ends up working out well, but it's not the easiest. Okay. I'm not going to lay off the hook that easily. What are the moments of, what are the things that have caused conflict between you guys? I would say I'm going to just say what has bothered me and that all these things are going to listen to this.

Yes, exactly. She has her own side to this and she really should. My mom is wonderful with responding to emails and outreach and really doing things that quite frankly, I don't have the attention to do. I have ADHD and I'll be somebody who will reach out. And then I'll get a response, but then when it comes to booking times and everything, I get overwhelmed and I don't follow through as much and so she's great with that, but then I'll get angry with her if I feel like I'm spending too much time editing a show or working on social media.

Because that's something that she doesn't do now. So so it really just has to do with the role division and Again, I would say it's more on my end My mom has so much patience and she is such a veteran In broadcasting and has won all these awards and everything that I really can't Get mad at her for anything she does wrong because she's so much more experienced than me it's a mother daughter thing.

I have to try as the daughter, right? I get under her skin a little bit


Srini Rao: So I have to ask as the daughter of somebody who has won all these awards Do you ever feel at moments? You're living in a shadow


Laura Owens: have and i've certainly felt that with my dad too because His career has been more relevant in my life.

My mom quit her job to be a stay at home mom when I was six. So a lot of the stuff that she won. She I wasn't really aware of at the time. And whereas with my dad I've gone to a lot of these events that my dad's been getting awards at. And so I do feel like to an extent there's been that especially being the daughter of both of them.

I get that all the time from people at the station with my dad that I don't really feel like I have my own identity necessarily. It's. I'm Ron and Jan's daughter. And that's been something that I think has motivated me more than anything to try and Create my own path and say hey I'm not doing this And just because my parents Have been successful in radio and broadcasting before that what I'm doing is really unique to how I feel about the world and how I feel I can best contribute to people So I think with more shows that we've done and now we're close to 300 I've started to feel a lot more comfortable in my own skin and have a lot more belief in myself


Srini Rao: So you mentioned a sister earlier and I, there's no way I wanted to get out of this conversation with asking about her, like what role does she play in all of this?

Anything? Or is she just listened and watch you guys from the sidelines and laughing? She's,


Laura Owens: she is the best. We've had her on a couple of times and she's absolutely my confidant and she's really into to motivational videos and books as well. She's amazing. She has a huge job in advertising, but on the side, she's also trying to become a personal trainer just because she really wants to help people with their appearance and looking better means you feel better on the on the inside.

So she has the same basic message. She just conveys it in a different way. But. She has said many times that she thinks it would be very difficult to work. The three of us together, we thought at the beginning, it'd be great to have all of us do it. And I don't think she could do it. She doesn't have experience working with my mom in the same capacity for so many years.

She's just wonderful. She's, she has helped me so much through the issues that I've had with my. relationship with my abusive relationship and relationships afterwards and has helped me become somebody who feels like they can help other people. So it really is very much due to her.


Srini Rao: So if two final questions One, what role has the, have the people that you've gotten to speak to played in your own healing? Cause I, I can honestly tell you, I'm a very different person 10 years after starting this show than I was when I did and like it definitely changed my values to change the way I thought about the world.

So I wonder in what ways has your own creative work changed you and helped in this path to healing?


Laura Owens: Our show was started on the basis of trying to figure out how. People got through their tough times. So I think that I've been really helped by just realizing that successful people had struggles since on the surface, it seems like they've just been successful.

They haven't gone through anything. And so to see people display themselves warts and all has really me become somebody who. Who has a better understanding of people. And it's interesting that you say you're not the same person as you were before, because I feel that. Same way that just having in depth conversations where people really bare their soul gets you to know just the world and who we are and that people have so much more good to them than we give them credit for.

And I think it's really easy when you've had a negative experience with a person and it doesn't have to be. An abusive relationship like I had it could be a bad upbringing or depression or something. It's really refreshing to be able to hear a podcast where you know, you're hearing people talk more than just in a two minute interview and they come off as real.

I think it's more relatable. I want to wrap up with my final question, which is how we finish all our interviews at the end, let's take a little creative. What do you think it is? That makes somebody or something unmistakable.

I think it's not being afraid to show your scars. I think that's something we are all really struggling with.

I think that the pandemic has made us all rethink the fact that we need to show appreciation for Our fellow mankind here. But I think that we need to remove the stigma of victims being we still have with the black lives matter movement, victims don't have something wrong with them, the shame needs to be, I'm thinking back to Brene Brown and everything I learned from listening to her for so many years.

We just need to remove the shame. We need to be proud of who we are and encourage each other to. Be the best versions of ourselves that we can, while also being genuine. And that's what makes somebody unmistakable.


Srini Rao: Amazing. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your wisdom and insights with our listeners.

Where can people find out more about you your work and everything that


Laura Owens: you're up to? Oh thank you so much. It's been such an honor to talk with you as somebody who's been a long time listener. And you guys can find out more about. The show that I host with my mom, nobody told me at nobody told me show.

com and you can check out my personal Instagram, which is Laura M Owens. And yeah, you can keep up with us on every platform. Very active.


Srini Rao: Awesome. And for everybody listening, we'll wrap the show with that.