Merel Kriegsman | How to Break Generational Money Patterns

Meryl, welcome to The Unmmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us. I'm so excited to be here. It is my pleasure to have you here. I found out about you, I think, through either way of Cher Ha or the people at Podcast Alley. Usually Cher is the one and only referral source that I never say no to.

I don't think I've ever said no to her because she's so good at what she does and so good at vetting people. Oh, she's

Merel Kriegsman: like integrity Yeah. Itself.

Srini: Oh, no. I, every time I have a friend who's who should I hire to get myself on podcasts? I was like, share ha. She's the only person I never say no to.

And I say, no, out to nine out of 10 people.

Merel Kriegsman: I am, I'm lucky.

Srini: You hired Cher.

Merel Kriegsman: Share. She hired podcast. I hired the other ones, the other, she works with

Srini: them. I believe she works with them. If I remember correctly. I knew that. Or she's done some work with them anyways. Yes, it is absolutely my pleasure to have you.

So I found out about your work and when I. The results in income that people were getting on your page. I was just like, okay, you know what? I have to find out about this. What the hell is behind all of this? What is this thing? But before we get into all of that since we're talking about work, I wanted to start by asking you, what did your parents do for work and how did that end up shaping what you've ended up doing with your life and your career?

Oh,

Merel Kriegsman: I just I've looked forward to this question. I think, first of all, I just wanna say I come from a family where it's we have artists in the family, psychics, mediums, protrusion, hypes, astrologers. So it's a very different kind of family than most people. And so creativity was the was expected.

So instead of my parents going you're gonna be a dentist like your dad, or, a lawyer or whatever, right? It was very much expected for me to have a creative profession. And and like now as an entrepreneur, I'm almost like rebelling. I was talking to my dad the other day and I'll tell you a second what he does and my mom does, but I talking to my dad and he was like, Pearl yeah, making millions is fun and all, really you're an artist, right?

Be total waste of your life if you don't make that focal point of what you do world. Okay. I think entrepreneurship is actually really creative, but not sure you're gonna ever understand that. So yeah, my, my dad although he is a, he's a very creative person, he analyzes like the benefits that people Can ask for, or the, what do you call it, like looking for the English works?

Dutch, of course, he works in Dutch. But basically he works together with doctors that when people go on disability he and the doctor together analyze like what kind of, disability they can go on, or whether they should still work or work part-time or what they're capable of. So it's very much it's very analytical.

It's very very much like listening, seeing possibilities, helping people see possibilities. It's almost like probably he's been coaching people like before it was even hot, that it's very like the skills that he taught me and the way that he talked about people and how he worked with people.

I used to this day as a business mentor for sure. And then my mom she's actually the inspiration for what I do today because she is so incredibly talented. She's an interior designer creates these incredible homes and she was never able to turn it into money. So it was, she was officially a stay at home mom.

But really, she's just like a magician with spaces. And to see her not able to turn it into money and then to reentered a realm of opera, singing myself, right? You go be an artist, mell, right? So I studied opera singing, had a career, all the things, and then realized my mom, like my grandma, I like my, like what?

All the way back. I stemmed from a lineage of women that just don't seem to actually fully, fulfill the potential and monetize their skills. So being pregnant at that time, I literally like swore to my unborn child to not pass that on. And I'm very excited to report that. We definitely broke that cycle with where I was able to take my business.

Srini: Wow. That's such an unusual sort of narrative, particularly for parents giving advice to their children. I've had a handful of people who are raised by artists and even their own parents don't pursue a career. Don't do it. Yeah. And I, I know this, cause you mentioned you're an opera singer.

I was almost a music major in college. My dad had the good sense to talk me out of it because tuba players are, one in every orchestra and you basically have to wait for somebody to die for a job to open up. And you know that as an opera singer. So a couple of different things. I just finished reading this book called Quarter Life, which was all about this sort of challenge that young people have.

Trying to find this balance between meaning and stability. And they either go, they go win one extreme, they pursue extreme stability, which means they have these stable jobs, they make a lot of money, and they hate their lives, or they pursue meaning, and they have this sort of idea that, oh, my life is full of passion, but it's a giant mess in every other way.

Yeah. So as somebody who was raised with this kind of narrative, how did you figure out what that balance is between meaning and stability? I

Merel Kriegsman: love this question. For me, stability is really important, especially being the mother to three or young daughters. And my, my husband is a lot older than I am.

He had a long opera career that was very fulfilling, but also financially very unrewarding. So there's a lot of financial responsibility that I carry. For myself, for him, for our children. So stability is something that for me, actually helps me then focus on what gives me meaning when the stability feels wonky, right?

I feel just oh no, I need to tend to the stability first in order for me to I'm not one of those artists or creative people who like thrives in the chaos or something. And I think there, there's always a sense of chaos when you're an entrepreneur. Like it's different every day and you never know what you're gonna encounter and like all those things, and I love that.

But it's I think it's very easy to hate on the stability, but I yeah, I don't know. Like it they go so beautifully together. When I think of how much money we've been able to make, it's also because. My husband took on this role of CFO in our company, and he works with this this app.

It's called, you Need a Budget. I dunno if you know it, why not? . And we work with a financial coach. And the fact that he so exquisitely manages our money makes me feel safe enough to say, okay, things are taken care of. Now I can go create like my mind castles and create new offers and create like wealth poetry and stuff like that, right?

So just making sure that the basis is taken care of. And then slide. And then I think, for me there's always fascination with my own risk tolerance, which I think is really where we can create a lot of magic in our lives, right? So it's can I be 10 times more courageous today than I really feel I am?

And and with that idea of 10 x courage, who would I reach out to? What would I say? What would I post? Who would I follow up with? Where would I pitch myself and my business? And I find that it's harder to do when I know things offer a little bit messy in the back end.

Srini: Yeah. I wanna come back to the idea of press tolerance.

One of the things that I am curious about, you mentioned that you were in this family of astrologers and spiritual teachers. It sounds and I always wonder if people like you are exposed to spiritual teachings and self-improvement type material at an early age. And I wonder if that, makes you immune to all the other bullshit that most of us deal with before we go to therapy when we're 30 something years old.

Because I've heard two sides of this coin. People are like, oh yeah. Having a therapist as a parent will fuck you up more than not.

Merel Kriegsman: It's interesting. I was in therapy by the time I was eight and for obsessive compulsive all kinds of stuff. And I didn't really leave therapy. And then while I was in therapy, I developed anorexia, but hid it from my therapist because at that point I was what my dad who was therapy resistant.

So it was, I was so cunning to just, rep these therapists and psychoanalyst and stuff around my little finger that yeah, they just, they couldn't they couldn't actually help me anymore. Obviously I didn't want to be helped as well. I was more interested in hiding.

Anorexia in essence is an addiction. So I, I had a, an interest in people not discovering that was going on for me. And And then I had no therapist for about 20 years. Also really, with this belief that my dad ingrained that, your therapy resistant is not gonna work for you anymore.

And then actually I started therapy this spring and and really realizing that, it's my, I like, it's not whether they are a good therapist or not, it's like my level of honesty that I can have with myself and coming clean with what's really going on for me that creates the breakthrough.

So I've been doing some very courageous, opening up both, some of the things happened in my past and have an affected me. But just to go back to your question I think like for me the experience like also being in the online space is that some people are like raving about like certain self-development tools and certain things where.

For me that is like normal, right? So it's not, it doesn't feel as like fancy or exciting or alluring or, like it's just oh that's normal, right? I was reading like Freud and doing when I was like 15 and right. It's just I dunno, this is a little different. Am I jaded? Am I I think more than anything, if I'm really like digging into this where I see so many people really wanting to take all kinds of, like certification programs and stuff like that, I think I really trust my own sort of like mentorship and coaching abilities, my listening skills my ability to.

Sort of really quickly identify what's really going on, what they're really saying. I'm like hyper aware of like language patterns and tone of voice and body language and it's just something that I've been mastering over the course of decades, you were talking about your diagnosis, but obviously a bunch of stuff going on for myself, but also my siblings all went to special need kids schools and and they were were all a little bit special, like really highly sensitive, but also diagnosed fear disorders and being on the spectrum and all kinds of things.

And I think that more so than my therapy experiences and, just being the kid of parents that went through some really hard stuff growing up and how that impacted them. It was being around people who are. Neuro divergent as my norm. That sort of made me who I am today and the way that I listen and the way that I see people and the way that I'm, very often able to look through the bullshit that they're throwing out and just go oh no, you're one of those.

Or oh no, this is what's going on. Yeah.

Srini: So how has having parents like that and siblings like that influenced your own parenting in the way that you're raising your daughters?

That's another

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Merel Kriegsman: It's been an adventure in the sense that I think before we become parents I had a couple years there in my twenties where it was like my parents did this wrong and this, we could have done better.

And then you have kids and you go oh, shit, like breaking cycles and doing things differently than the generations before me is almost impossible. I was like hearing myself say things and do things where I'm like, , no. And it was just impossible to to stop. And and I instantly had so much more compassion for my parents.

And since then I, I've, very, been very vocal to them and my, my parents are still, if they've had just like such a rough start in life which we can go into or not, I'll leave it up to you, but, they're struggling with things like addiction and it's just, it's hard.

You're having a hard time. And so I really made it, made an effort to just say I

,

think you did such an amazing job. Cause these people they created worlds of like pure magic for us kids. Like they, my dad built an entire like little wooden house with like multiple stories.

And I grew up in, in close to r m, which is bridge too far, like the, second World War ii like movie or we did like World War II movie. And I basically grew up on the Dead Bridge. There was always like tons of ammunition that we found on our walks. And then my brother and my dad started doing like metal detecting.

We'd bring all kinds of stuff and we kids would play with that safe or unsafe. I think my parents sometimes were like oh wait. Maybe we should call like the right, the servant that comes in and makes sure that nothing explodes and Right. But it was just like this magical realm of like forests and historical reenactment that we were into, and then reading books together and then sword fighting for months in the backyard.

And our parents like supported our creativity so much. Like they would always make sure that we had fabrics, that we could sew, sew costumes, and that we learned how to make our own swords and our own bow and arrows. And this was like before the internet, right? Like we're talking nineties here.

So yeah, just like incredible, incredibly grateful for what they were able to create. So really I've been telling them that, also just saying I know things have been hard, but you are the perfect parent for me. Just what you like, you've been able to gift us. It's just beyond.

And yes, there was a lot of brokenness, but sometimes we would sit around the table and the Straus would come on like the, it's called the four last songs, like big orchestral, beautiful music and Soprano voice. And all of a sudden we would all be crying and we'd be oh my God.

It's a little bit like my dad did, like full blown sobs and we would all hug and, so there's, I think creativity, if you speak about creativity, I think creativity was like that one thing that, the brokenness couldn't touch. The sort of, the complexity of like where they came from and how that impacted them and how that impacted their parenting and how that impacted us and all those things.

But creativity was always something that we had that we could count on, that we could, we could find each other through. The creativity through music, through art, through creative self-expression. And still, like when you see the WhatsApp channel of my family, they have this, we did WhatsApp together and they call it like family cakes, mom, headquarters tier.

And it's like literally oh, I just finished. It's like massive embroidery project. And then the next one is oh, I just, I have my first sort of bunch of paintings already for my first exhibition. And then it's it's just like art is our language. It's our love language.

Srini: I love that. Yeah I do want to go into sort of the rough start, it's funny cuz when you think of a comedian who said, every mother places a curse on their child, says, one day I hope you have a child is just like you. And that curse actually comes true. And I've asked friends about this do you ever find yourself repeating the patterns of your own parents?

And this is one of my best friends, he's Yeah, I come to think of it, all those things I said, I'd never say, I find myself saying to my own daughter. But yeah, you did mention a rough start. It's funny because I realized even with my own parents, being this weird creative kid born into an Indian family, I always joked that I'm like God's sorting error somehow getting placed with these people.

But I, after spending so much time understanding the context in which they formed their worldview, which was, Hey, our lives were either poverty or security, which is why we gave you the advice we did. Yes. Yeah. I started to really see things with their perspective. And then I also realized, I was like, wow, they literally started with nothing.

They came to the, this country. And I'm like, wow, what you guys have done is nothing short of remarkable.

Merel Kriegsman: Yeah, exactly. And you can, cause it's very special when you start to realize that it's like a magical moment. Yeah, I would say that for. My parents, like my dad and I just realized I have to walk myself into my computer and pick me up for some reason.

Make sure I don't lose you. Here. There we go. I'm back. My father's father died very unexpectedly when he was 13 years old. Literally, was playing upstairs and all of a sudden heard like this gut wrenching, scream from his mother. And he ran downstairs and she was on the floor next to the phone absolutely sobbing.

And, her husband had died at 42. And and she was she never recovered, it was very, actually very moving honestly. When she was. 80 years old and she was like a complete chainsmoker. I don't even know how she got to a, honestly. But she was 80 years old and she had struggled with something in the delirium, but it's she became delirious.

Like her, she was probably like a little dehydrated or something and just, she started seeing things and wasn't quite there with us anymore. She was in the hospital and she had throughout my childhood tell, told me so many stories of her husband and how kind he was and how much of a gentleman and how he would treat her.

And like she was in love with be man, even like 40 years after, after he passed. And so I started telling stories back to her while she was in the hospital and she was, she was there but not quite, almost like a child, and just yeah. You would always, put on your coat and hold the door.

And she said, how do you know? And then the next thing she just started crying and she had her false teeth out and she, she looked absolutely like ridiculous, but so beautiful and special. And she's started crying. She said, I love you. I'm miss it. So just like a tragic loss that she never recovered from.

And the effect of that was that my dad had to become a man at age 13, and didn't have really any parents from that moment on. So that was hard. I struggled with depression a lot and went that direction of security and stability.

Even though probably hadn't had a different start, he would have probably chosen a much more artistic profession than he did in the end. And I think he did choose a very creative profession in the sense that, it was all about seeing the possibilities and helping people still find a way.

But it was it was more of more of a traditional job in that sense. And then with my mom her mother, like we're quite sure, had an undiagnosed postpartum depression that she never recovered from after her younger sibling was born. Then the sibling after that was very severely intellectually what's the right word?

I know it in Dutch, but she, can you even say handicapped in Dutch? You can, or used to when I grew up .

Srini: Yeah. I, who

Merel Kriegsman: knows? Intellectually disabled, I think. Is that the correct? I wanna make sure I say the right thing here. But she had the insec of, a three year old basically.

And so my mom had massive caretaker responsibilities. A father that was just, that's the whole other rabbit hole, but, couldn't be there emotionally for her mother being completely emotionally unavailable. And then that family completely blowing up at when she was 14 and like my dad, just like being basically put out on the street and not having any security. And so they found each other, and said to each other, right? We'll start it fresh, we'll start a new lineage, right? And then of course all the things bubble to the serve as when you start having children, just like my experience and some of the stories that your friends have been sharing with you, right?

It's it's very hard not to repeat past. But I think, everything, considering they did a really awesome job and you know what I find now what I really love is that, some of the really hard work that I've done in therapy since the spring and the healing work that I've been doing and also feeling the, those generational change of care, the data have been going on for many generations and the discord between mothers and daughters, like literally going back like at least four generations probably, right?

We don't know what happened before that. But making sure that doesn't happen to my mom and myself, and hopefully me and my daughter know, what was I gonna say? I'm just like picturing all my people here for a second. Yes, it's. When you do that healing, it's not just that you heal yourself in the next generation, the healing actually works retroactively as well.

I think often we give up on our parents and it is what it is, let's do better. But I had the most breathtaking conversation yesterday with my mother and my sister on, on WhatsApp, over, over the phone, and it was so incredibly inspiring and so incredibly healing.

And we were all just bringing these these gems of like experiences that we've had in the last few years and just talking about it and helping each other make sense. And so I think, it's important to not just repeat obviously what your parents have taught you, right? There's a real benefit and there's real gifts to be had by.

Breaking some cycles, but also understanding like why was that cycle there in the first place? Which I think is what you were, talking about with your parents and then breaking the cycle, but also help the older generation understand and say, I know that you want me to do this because this is where you come from, but in the end like they don't want us to, work ourselves to the bone because they did, and they don't want, us to, to, to clinging on, to save the tea for the rest of our life.

Not completely fulfilling our purpose in life, simply because they had to make some really bold decisions to secure their safety, right? It's that they want us to thrive, so we need to define what that means for us. And then like I think we all that, at least in attempt, help them understand and say, I actually.

And receiving the legacy that you want to pass on, but it doesn't look the way that you would think it needs to, that you think it needs to look like. And those can be really deeply transformational conversations. And of course, sometimes it doesn't work, they'll just like, no. Yeah.

Srini: Wow. Let's talk briefly about your time as an opera singer and then we'll get into what you're actually doing today. Sure. I'm always fascinated by musicians particularly, cause I know what goes into this, just from my one attempt at trying to do it. In high school after making Allstate Band, I, to this day, I still think those lessons.

Invaluable. I got, the habits of discipline practice to this day. My ninth grade band director, I always say he deserves far more credit than he'll ever get from I know. I published. Yeah. So how did this start for you and then, how in the world did you, get into it? And then what are the habits, rituals, routines, like what are the things that you brought from that life to your life today that have been instrumental?

Yep.

Merel Kriegsman: That's another sale on Shopify. The all-in-one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business. Shopify makes it simple to sell to anyone from anywhere. Whether you're selling succulents or stilettos, start selling with Shopify and join the platform simplifying commerce for millions of businesses worldwide.

Customize your online store to your brand. Discover new customers and build the relationships that keep them coming back. Now it's your turn to try Shopify for free and start selling anywhere. Sign up for a free trial at shopify.com/atc. All lower case. Go to shopify.com/atc to start selling online today.

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How it started with was that I was always surrounded by beautiful, I would say not necessarily opera music, but a lot of orchestral works with voice. And sacred music and baroque music, and then a little bit of off thrown in there as well. And so I started singing along as a kid and was like, holy shit, I'm really good at this.

I think it was 11 when I took my first singing lessons and I remember singing the a Maria by Scher, actually for my, widow grandmother. She was like, can you sing that on my funeral? She was just, she loved it so much, and you know what I did sing that on her funeral.

It was very special. It was like I could keep it together saying absolutely, amazingly, and then absolutely broke down after that. It's that in, in and of itself is a skill, right? Being able to compartmentalize your emotions and still no matter what, right? Show up.

And deliver really at really high quality level. And then and then go okay, now it's my turn to cry and let go. Started at age 11. Obviously then I became very sick with the food disorder and a few years where I thought I was never gonna sing again.

And I, was losing the opportunity to have children because, I had a lot of people who go through such severe, like food disorders, right? Like they, they can't have kids, right? Like they just ruin their entire endocrine system. So it's very happy, very blessed that didn't happen to me.

But yeah, so there were a couple really rough years and then I picked it up again when I was about 16 and just absolutely loved. Just, for me, like I was just really good at it. I could literally listen to something and then just do it, I could sing it. And and that cake gave me such a tremendous sense of freedom, just like emotional, just letting it rip, right?

Like fully expressing myself. And and so took lessons again applied to being the conservatory. Went through a bachelors of performing arts there. They really tried to push me into becoming a teacher, which I think is what a lot of art schools do these days because they know how hard its to actually be a performer and make that work financially.

But I never wanted to be sing teacher. I absolutely suck at theory. It like it's like math to me. I'm really bad at math. And so I, like even with tutoring I barely made it through. I was already performing during university, so I would go to France, I would go to Belgium, I would go to like all these places.

So I was just pretending like all the other subjects that I needed to study, didn't matter. And then I basically like just did everything that I should have done over the course of years, in about six weeks right before I graduated. So it was a very stressful period. I did it, graduated, and then they wanted me to do a master's and I was like, no, I'm not gonna do master's.

I just, I moved to so I met my husband who's also opera singer and I moved in with him in live, which is a very musical city in the east of Germany where. Johan Sebastian Ba. John, I

,

don't even know how you say it in English, we shouldn't be saying it in English, , it's a German composer, but like lots of like very famous composers.

There's very famous orchestra there called the Gant House. So I had this musical like lifestyle for a few years. There was absolutely amazing. I sang, works in certain churches where those very works were premiered back in the day. I traveled to Rome, I did the competition there issued by the Vatican where I won third price.

It was broadcasted like across the globes. There was like some really big successes and and I wasn't making any money , absolutely hated that because I love beautiful things and I love luxury and it was great that, I would say one of the things that my parents really taught me was how to.

Create worlds of magic with, barely anything. So we would go to, flea markets and go get vegetables at the very end of the day to the, at the market there to get discounts. And we made it work, but we were living far below to poverty level. And and that was fine until I got pregnant and I was literally riding my bike, cleaning houses.

We didn't have a minimum wage at that point in east of Germany, so I was making five bucks, seven bucks an hour. And and I was just like, yeah, no, I don't, I like, I want something different for my children. And that's when I got my shit together and that's when I bought myself some courses on credit.

And studied and just like fits into this whole topic. And it was actually great. So I just wanna hide like this. My husband had gone bankrupt 10 years prior to us meeting, and so we had all these books on, right? Start late, finish Rich, the Millionaire Mind, like all those things cuz he had been doing a lot of financial healing and understanding himself and mindset and stuff.

So all that material was there and I just I devoted myself to understanding money, sales mindset, marketing. And what I realized, this is actually really interesting. So we were doing Airbnb, we were renting out spaces in our house. Cause to pay the bills. We're fantastic hosts. We love good food and people.

And Airbnb. Best host and stuff. And very often great entrepreneurs would call through, like it was an event in live or right, whatever. And and I would talk marketing with them. And what I realized that was like, that I'm a really gifted person around like words and messaging and positioning.

And they would walk away with ideas and later on contact me and said Meryll actually implemented this. And it's gones like it's hugely successful. So I decided to to hang out my shingle as a copywriter instead of a coach or mentor, which I really wanted to do, but also didn't wanna be one of those people was just like, I'm a coach, without a niche.

And it was like, as long as you don't have a niche, someone like don't quite know, I'm just gonna hang up my shingle as a copywriter and study to shed out marketing and conversion copywriting and. All those things because whatever I will do down the line, I will be able to use those skills. And did I ever that was such a good decision.

Srini: It sounds to me, just from hearing you tell that story that a large part of your work is more about financial healing than it is the actual tactical stuff.

Merel Kriegsman: It's interesting cause I what I believe is that we can replace most of our busy work by making power moves. So it's actually like deep down we, once we know who we are in the world and we know what it is that we do, we have to give, and we're courageous enough to make some really bold moves every day.

I don't think you need a ton of strategy. You need like strategies, like the framework, but then you need to fill it in with, just like sheer courage and. And creative brilliance. And so I do the strategy with people 100%. We create something that's absolutely tailored to them, right? And what comes to them most easily.

For some people are fantastic at networking, right? Some other people are absolutely phenomenal at content creation. Other people are really good at at generating sales, right? And I think that so many of us try to make businesses work in a way that other people say a business should work, right?

Even of course, we run into trouble and because we don't trust our s you drift away further and further from what could have been, right? And so what I have found working with so many clients and creating so many, like seven figure multiple, seven figure like alumni success stories over the years.

Is that it's really, it's more of stripping away and then a minimalist building up again around what their true core strengths are, than giving them like, here's the system. Do the thing and it will work. Yeah.

Srini: Yeah. I think there is often this tendency to look for that system or that formula to say, oh, I'll just, replicate this person's result by following their formula.

I'm like, no, there's a variable that's gonna throw that whole thing off. Look in the mirror. Yeah. Yeah.

Like I said, I think the thing that just immediately got me when I looked at the testimony was on your page, I was just like, whoa. I'm like $60,000 months, people going from six figures in a year to six figures in a month. Things that I had read about. So what is it that enable.

That kind of transformation so quickly cuz it, it does, it also doesn't sound like it's this long, drawn out process, but I also think that there's a tendency for people to look for quick fixes. I, there's an entire book called The Quick Fix, which is all about sort of people turning to personal development for some sort of silver bullet.

. So talk to me about those two aspects of this, because I think that the immediate temptation for somebody to, who would land on your website is like, oh, I'm gonna hire Marilyn, I'll be rich next month.

Merel Kriegsman: Yeah. And unfortunately, I've had people like that and then of course it doesn't work.

And then there's, some resentment as well. And I've, over the years, like really tried to refine my ability to spot somebody who is ready for this work. Because basically what I help them do is become so incredibly courageous. It's like literally replacing all of that busy work, all of that, like static that's just buzzing around us, right?

With You could do this, you could do that. All of that. And just saying who are you? Why are you here? What's your life's work? And just really asking those questions that, for a person who is ready for that for them to, to just it's a how would I describe that moment?

It is a very often realizing that they already have everything they need. If they just slightly tweak this one scene and they do a little bit more here and they really, become gutsy in this one particular area, and like it just goes boom. In the most beautiful way. Like it just explodes.

Yeah. So I would say the people who are ready for that often, are really clear on their life's work and also just, had. I have had experiences like either in corporate where they were successful, so good success habits. Like you were asking me before, like, how did you know being an artist, teach me like habits and routines, right?

But it's high performance, right? It's basically what it's, so people who come to me who already have those like high performance routines and practices in place, they know what it is that they do. They know what it is that they want, and they're no longer willing to go through life not having it.

Those are absolutely perfect. And then, and I'm guessing

Srini: they don't need to be motivated because this is, one of those things is I'm like, I can't stamp people who need to be motivated. I'm just like, yeah, I'm not for you.

Merel Kriegsman: I'm the same way. I just if you are not a high performer, then you probably should not work with me.

Like all those people with all those success stories they are, either people who were really successful in, in, with an academic career, or they were successful in corporate, or they were successful artists or Right. Some kinda creative profession or sports. I am not the person for you if you need me to motivate you.

I just, I'm like, if you don't want it enough, then I cannot instill that in you. But if you are, this is the time in my life that I'm going to make this happen. There's they're hell, Ben. Yeah. Then I'm the perfect person. I'm literally like, like looking at the constellation of all the things that they bring to the table.

We just create those minor little tweaks and adjustments and everything just starts working together. So I'm really good at seeing. Landscape and how it fits together. I can see people very clearly. I'm an excellent listener, so I just pull it outta them with the right questions.

And then literally, sometimes it takes 10 days for them to start bringing in some very serious money. Wow.

Srini: So when, it's funny you say this cause I had a friend one of my best friends and I was like, char, I'd be a terrible coach. I'm like, I don't give a fuck about people's problems.

I'm like, I just wanna provide solutions. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not interested in hearing about their emotional bullshit or baggage. And somebody emailed me recently, And Cent Trinia, wanted to do someone on one work with you. And I was like listen man. I'm like, I don't really do one on one work.

There are a couple things you should know. One, I don't give a fuck about your feelings. I don't give a fuck about your problems. I don't want to hear about them. Yeah. But what I will tell you is how to make shit happen. And often I will tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. And I remember I put this on Facebook as a post as say, like what I jokingly called no bullshit coaching.

And my French char was like, honey, that should literally be word for word to copy on a landing page for your coaching services. And I was like, that sounds obnoxious. This guy ended up hiring me.

Merel Kriegsman: It's amazing. And this is the thing it's like we, I think you know that is a moment of courage, for you, like truly owning who you are and it attracts the people for you. I'm, I,

Srini: yeah, I was kinda surprised. It was just like, oh, okay, so this is how I filter by telling you I'm not a therapist, I'm not a life coach. I don't want to hear about your problems. Yeah,

Merel Kriegsman: exactly. I would say I'm a little bit softer in the sense that, it's not, I don't care about people's problems.

I'm very good at helping people make sense of why it's still a problem and how it's holding back and how they can change that. But then if they don't have the capacity or the willingness to actually go and make the change, then I'm like, yeah, then I don't know what I can do for you. And I think this is often like where I think the coaching industry just plunges straight head, like head first into codependency, right?

Where the coach or the mentor or whatever starts to, to actually work harder than the client. I don't think that's right. I don't think that's the right dynamic. It's, that's not how I think you create the kind of breakthrough result that you see right on my website. They have to. Have the willingness to work through the hard shit and keep on getting off and picturing, scenes for movies where somebody's just continuously beaten into the mud, right?

Like face down and just continues to get out. You need to have excuse me. You need to have that attitude if you, you want to be successful as an entrepreneur. And then yeah, there of course there's like the ease that you can build in, right? And the downtime to go into your creative, like cave and with the next iteration of your work and Right.

All of that, right? , it's not being, I'm curious how you would phrase this distinction, because it's not about being heard on yourself. No. It's just being understanding that sometimes the kindest thing you can do for yourself, give yourself a kick in the butt.

Srini: Yeah, no, so it's funny you bring this up cause I, you mentioned that idea of ease and I think that we've almost oversold this idea of ease with so many of these books of oh, live this stress-free life full of money and power and fame.

And I'm just like, no reality. Like there, I think that there is almost, yeah I like Red Dalio has worked a lot because I think he's very pragmatic. There's, I think that this is, Annie Duke has this new book out called Quit the Power of Knowing When to Walk Away. I Love it. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm, it's on my top 10 list. I'm talking to her tomorrow. And she said one of the problems that we have is that optimism, unchecked by realism is what leads people astray. And I think that's where this sort of persistence, runs into trouble where it's oh, okay, you literally have no advantages.

And you brought this up earlier, it's like, what are you. As opposed to, trying to do something if somebody says you should do it in a certain way, even though you have no ability to do that well and persisting at it, it's kinda like a fools errand.

Merel Kriegsman: It is, yeah. And unfortunately like sometimes I see people and I can unfortunately like really see that they're not stellar at what they do.

Yeah. And there's nothing I can do for those people. And I always tell them, right? It's like there, there's just, there's not high enough level of mastery or there's not high enough level of clarity. It's, I'm really good at positioning and what kind of words to use and stuff like that, but you have to be able to build it around something that, a body of work that is already, but people don't wanna hear that.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No it's, I love pragmatic people, authors, thinkers I think it's much kinder, right? It's, for example for me just a realization that, life isn't fair. , right? I actually find extremely helpful. Yeah. Because now I can stop being in a story around but that wasn't fair.

And oh no wait, it's actually, it's about money and power and maybe sex and,

Srini: I think we also don't like to admit at all that luck plays a role in certain things. There's just this sort of, story that we sell. It's oh, everybody who, work their asses off, gets successful because they work their ass.

And it's wait a minute, you're not accounting for luck. Paul Graham writes about this in his. Essay on Wealth where he actually says, he was like, outliers are not good role models. He's people look at Bill Gates and they forget that he was the beneficiary of one of the most, spectacular blunders in the history of business with IBM selling that os to him.

Yeah. He's would Bill Gates be

,

rich? Yes. Would he be, one of the richest people in the world today know Yeah. If that hadn't happened. Yeah. He said from that point on, all he had to do was execute. And I think that we like to gloss over those parts of these stories.

Merel Kriegsman: It's, I think honestly what I often find is that people are looking to simplify the reality that we live in, when really it's a complex cluster of luck of privilege, of great, like so many layers.

For example my, my husband and I he is an agricultural air, right? Like he had 160 acres and a house line that was literally that we could just move on. That literally overnight lifted us from, poverty to to, to living somewhere beautiful where we could literally grow our own food and raise our kids and all that stuff without having to pay mortgage.

Context. Context, please. And I share any stories because people look at me and they go she, that magical, that despite being constantly corrected over the last seven years and moving across the globe and blah is making millions of dollars. And it's yeah, but also my husband basically works in my company.

I do not cook my meals. He does freight. Like we, we have a shit ton of support. We're able to move into a house without having to pay a mortgage. Context matters enormously. And here's what I believe. I think instead of looking at other people and go if they can do it, I can do it.

Or if I do it like them, then I will succeed too. You have to have almost like a relentless pursuit into the very fabric of your own identity. We wanna often find is that the gems that sort of catapult suit into that next level right, are in the shadows of our own psyches. In, in it is where there is like a wealth literally of ideas and expressions and creative ideas and like all the stuff, right?

So it's like more than anything, find it within yourself, go look within you, right? But of course it's not a trodden path. It is completely like adventuring into the unknown that I'm personally like, extremely committed and devoted to it's in my daily practices to to venture into that landscape of my great landscape and just go, walk around in there.

Instead of constantly looking outside of ourselves for the answers. Yeah, because this is also how you become absolutely unique in the marketplace, right? For example, I don't know anyone who creates like all these wealth poems. Like I just, I love creating them because I think it speaks, considering that so much of you know what is considered mindset and right.

How our decisions are impacted, lived within our subconscious. And I'm like, okay, let's speak to the subconscious. Great. Let's create poetry, which is way more speaks in, in, in like images and conjures up entire worlds, like within rate those words rather than, creating more how to content, right?

. But it's not something I've seen other people do. And that sets me apart, right? Like one, one of the ways that I'm, that I set myself apart. And also I think things like right? The fact that I've read hundreds and hundreds of erotic novels in the last couple years, and I share about that very openly and right.

There's just sayings about ourselves that are so unique. It's like everything is already there, right? This whole pursuit of how do I position myself as differently or like different in my marketplace, or become like a sort of an original or category of one. It's like you gotta go inward and that's scary because you might run into what if I'm not different?

Or what if I don't like what I find? But then there's therapy.

Srini: It's funny because I've been hammering context so much that I'm working on a new book idea titled everybody's Full of Shit, including Me, which is all about context. But one question I have about this is, when people come to you, how much of this is about mindset?

These are already people who are motivated. Clearly they've already been successful, cause I, I think there's this sort of misguided tendency, particularly in personal development literature and a lot of the prescriptive advice to think, okay, I'm gonna just, create this vision board and, sit on my ass and, imagine being rich and then one day money's gonna fall from the sky.

And you, obviously you and I both know that's not reality and yet the people who come to you, I doubt are anywhere near like that. So how much of this is. Changing their mindset.

Merel Kriegsman: So I don't love the word mindset. I think it's really tricky because, very often what's talked about is mindset is actually like people say I have an mindset.

It's no, I actually have a lot of privilege. It was just a little bit easier for you than it was people with people. And but what I do believe in is neuroscience, right? The fact that we can have pathways in our brain literally through, or because of our lived experience, right?

Like who we are what our parents taught us to believe about the world and about reality and stuff like that, right? And all our own life experiences. And, there, there can be instances of deep shame that are, that go on process of, or. Traumatic experience, and they literally impact like the very fabric of our gray, gray matter, green matter, gray matter inside of our brains, right?

What I've been, I'm getting started with this again, I think it's time also for, from my next level some nudges and some urges. When I was making no money whatsoever and I was like, why would I believe in myself that I can do this, right? I look at my mom and she, she tried and try and she failed and look at my grandma.

And she tried and tried and she failed. And look at all I look at my husband and he, he's not very financially successful and blah, blah, blah. It was just like surround, but so much proof how hard this is, that it's really unlikely to happen. I literally let people say that to me, right?

I sometimes say Start online copywriting business and they would like laugh in my face. And so what we started doing was doing this like Joe Penile meditation a couple times a week. Dunno if you're familiar with his work, but he has some really good meditations and we were literally devoted, right?

That's that word again, to rewiring whatever was necessary to rewire in order to even perceive the opportunities right. To even feel worthy enough to put myself out there. I remember basically I started my business and within six weeks it wasn't. I was invited on panels to be an expert.

It was like, it was insane. I was, I literally remember I bought the Copy Cure which is Laura Bel Gray and program on copy. So it was copywriter and they were doing popup events where they were just giving live feedback. And I just inserted myself. I just started giving people feedback as if I was part of the team and personally message me.

I received a message from Marie, received a message from Laura saying to how much PR appreciated and he gave Shout out, and I got hired by so many people after that, right? Because at the transfer of authority. And that was literally weeks into me starting my base. But I was, I had the guts right to, to do that.

It was a huge risk. They could have said who the fuck are you and why are you think what makes you think that this is, welcome behavior, yeah. But I did it and I think that's really what I've done ever since. It's cultivating these acts of courage, these acts of audacity and all of a sudden, even if you are great, you don't have a to in childcare and you have young kids or you have caretaker responsibilities or you have some kind diagnosis yourself, like you'll be able to create so much momentum.

So incredibly fast. But it does mean that you have to start to explore what do I fear and why, and who am I being and Right. Do some people call that mindset? Yeah. Some people call that mindset because I'm a very pragmatic person. I'm like let's just. Start working with what's in our brains and how we can start to shift that.

Yeah.

Srini: I wanna finish with two final questions. I wanna bring this full circle back to something we alluded to earlier, and this was risk tolerance. And the only reason this is fresh in my mind is because I'm recording my creativity hour episode with my friend Gareth. And anytime I don't have an idea, I just come into my database and I'm like, yeah, what can we talk about?

Let's go, let's talk about risk. And you've mentioned this earlier, and one thing that I have realized is there's something really interesting about risk is that there's times in your life when you have a high capacity for risk with very little to lose. And the irony and the paradox of it is that the very things that get you everything you want involve taking big risks.

And then you get to this point where you have all those things and it actually decreases your ability to take risk as you take on more responsibility. So for example, I'm a single guy. Like I can take risks that you can't. And yet you probably have more money than I do, so you can take risks that I can't.

So how do you think about that in terms of like stages of risk tolerance and not losing it, but at the same time maintaining your capacity for intelligent risk, not just recklessness.

Merel Kriegsman: . Yeah, I would say that oh my God, I have so many thoughts and I can't wait to listen to that episode.

Very curious. But you're absolutely right? Like I, I have a lot of money and because of that I can take certain risks and stuff like that, but I also have a lot of responsibility. Three young kids, right? All the things. So expenses and everything that comes with having a family.

I would say that we have to emphasize more, I do this a lot with my clients. It's what is the feeling of. Taking, right? Like a high quality risk is what I would call it. So not a reckless, let's just make some moves, but the thought out strategic, what sort of high higher risk move, what does that feel like?

Because it feels different than the reckless one. So I can go through my days and go I have not felt that sensation for a while. I've become little bit like docile where of just a little bit too relaxed right in, into sort of this world of like wealth and overflow that we've created for a family.

So I go for the sensation where I create sort of moments for myself where I can go do, did I feel. Just now the way that I used to be when I just started and I was making some of those really big old moves and then then I go, I can go yeah, this is what it feels like. So it's not so much is this a high risk, big move or is this a is this the one or is this the one?

It's like your body actually sometimes knows better than you are afraid of reasoning. So it's just like cutting through the bullshit, if you will, and just literally go for like the somatic experience of this is what it feels like when I take risks that I know are well thought out, right?

To an extent and more than anything. Taking courageous action that makes me feel proud about myself. There's like a rush, a certain like cocktail of hormones that's probably released right in your body. And if you have awareness of what things feel like, what it feels like when you know you're making a really solid connection with someone, for example, right?

Like something that you feel like this is gonna be great friendship or collaboration that's gonna great be still there years from now, that has a certain feeling. Same thing with risk, the same thing with, all the other things, right? Making sales feels a certain way, making sales. So when you start to cultivate and become really keenly aware of what it feels like, you can go straight to, did I feel like that today?

Rather than did I do all the things on my to-do list? Which is usually not the path towards, for, to productivity and excellence and, performance. So it's creating shortcuts basically. Wow.

Srini: This has been mind blowingly cool and gotten in so many interesting directions. So I have one final question for you, which is how we finish all of our.

What do you think it is that makes somebody do something Unmistaken?

Merel Kriegsman: I honestly think it's in the area of like the willingness to do what you write, even if you're not liked for it. Like that willingness to be rejected. That willingness not to be liked. That willingness to not be understood and to do it anyway. And to keep saying it and to keep being visible with it and say, this is what I believe in.

So I think most of us if you turn it around, lose the chance to be truly unmistakable because we want to be liked. Cause we wanna fit in. Right the opposite, if that doesn't feel safe. And we started our conversational, so with stability versus creativity.

I think it was, and for me it, it is within that area. And I think it's really important to keep not just reminding people around me of this, but also myself, right? Because sometimes I say things and people don't like me at all. They might walk me and they might, they like say things about me and but then also people messaging and they say, thank you for saying that first.

This make me want to actually engage you as, as my right. So giving up the willingness to be liked, to be palatable, I think is where the magic is.

Amazing.

Srini: I can thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story and your wisdom and insights with our listeners. Where can people find out more about you, your work, and everything that you're up to?

Merel Kriegsman: Yeah, so they can definitely go check out all of those success stories on my website, mel cressman.com.

You can follow me on Instagram. I do a lot of beautiful content there as well. It's simply my name. Come find me, send me dm, say hello. Very approachable. I always love it when people reach out to me and I have a Facebook group called Wealth on Your Terms for more insights on I love sharing behind the scenes, like what I'm up to, what I'm thinking, what I'm developing.

So you can definitely come and find me there as well.

Srini: Amazing. And for everybody listening, we'll wrap the show with that.