Omer Golan | The Power of Embracing Uncertainty: Lessons from Surviving a Suicide Bombing

Srini Rao

Omer, welcome to the Unmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Omer Golan

Thank you for inviting me.

Srini Rao

It is my pleasure to have you here. So you are one a long line of people who has been referred to me by our former guest and mutual friend, Michael Shine. Uh, you know, everybody refers as awesome, so no pressure at all. Uh, but I wanted to start by asking you, what is one of the most important things that you learned from one or both of your parents that have influenced and shaped your values and what you've ended up doing with your life?

Omer Golan

Hmm. Well, those are a compact question. This is a compact question we started with. I think something I learned from my father pretty much shaped the way I see the world. He told me at a very young age, I think I was maybe six or eight years old, I asked him if there's God. Everyone talking about God. I was kind of curious because he was not really...

interested. He's never taken us to do all the Jewish holidays that my mother was into. And so I was asking him, you know, is there a God? And he said, what do you care? I don't know, it's a topic, you know, people talk about it. He said, you don't need to worry about things that are not in your control, how the world started, and if there is God or there isn't, all you need to know is that you need to be a good person.

And to be authentic and live your life and think about the future and think about live the present. Don't worry about anything that is outside your scope. I think that kind of for many years, every time that I was thinking, you know, getting into arguments, if I'm an atheist, really I learned that I'm agnostic. I just prefer right now no one has proven to me.

if there is or there isn't God. So I just prefer not to have a strong opinion about it currently and I think that view, not worrying too much about things that are outside your control really shaped me as a person and became a strong lighthouse, I guess, for me.

Srini Rao

You know, it's funny because I think of all the great illusions that human beings have control might be the biggest one of all. The idea that we're in control of almost anything that happens other than our own actions. And yet people try to impose control over their lives in so many different ways. Tell me about the ability to develop that capacity, because I think that that's such a

Like, it's one thing to say it, right? But it's another to actually live it.

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Omer Golan

And you know what, I'll tell you this, I'll tell you about how I met Michael. I met Michael through Launch Club. It's a networking app that introduces you to random people. Have you heard about it? It's a cool web app and I'll send you a link after this. I'm a great believer in randomness and I believe that when I...

Srini Rao

No, I haven't. I'm gonna have to download it.

Omer Golan

you know, when you increase randomness in your life, good things happen. So I'm on this, I'm on this app for like maybe six, seven years, and I use it maybe once a month and every time that I open up, I'm starting a new path. You mean my life, I'm beginning a new project, start a new company or anything like that. I'm, I'm also try to increase the, my randomness kind of factors in my life. So I would.

I would go running in different trails. I would go to different gyms. I would work from different cafes and work in co-working spaces. I, uh, I would do a lot of, uh, networking events and I would use more lunch club meetings that kind of introduced me to random strangers. Um, I would do this maybe twice a week or once a week. And I believe that, you know, it's, it takes practice. I'm a control freak.

Omer Golan

All I said is that I'm not worried about things that are outside my control, but I believe that most of the things are in my control. So you develop it by trying to develop some healthy mix between randomness and to really

what is under your control, what it is the things that you can impact with your existence.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Well, I want to come back to that. But I want to talk about growing up in Israel. A couple of questions come from that. One, when you're looking at the state of that region of the world right now, particularly having grown up there, what do you make of the situation? Two, what do we not see? What is the media? How does the media distort our perceptions of what is happening in that region of the world? And talk to me about.

the advice your parents gave you about making your way in the world? Is it kind of like the standard Indian, you know, go do something stable, doctoral or engineer narrative?

Omer Golan

Oh my God, no. My father is a photographer, he's a war photographer. I think it's one of those things that everything there is outside your control. He's an artist in his soul, right? He takes pictures of the muse, but he likes the frame, he likes the picture, like the art of taking those photos and being in those moments. So I don't think that control for him, you know, for him control is work.

Srini Rao

Wow.

Omer Golan

If you while you're working, you're in control. Um, and so I don't know if it's similar to, you know, the Indian way of getting a good job. My parents definitely want me to, to have a career in something. Uh, they, you know, they discovered that I'm good with computers. Then they hoped that I would have a career in computers. But when I told them I'm going to be an artist, my life is going to be creative.

I think that, you know, my father was skeptical. My mother was supportive, like she's always been. She's a very supportive person in my life. And, but they also want me to be safe, to have some stability in life. I think that's about that. Like in terms of growing up in Israel and what's happening there today. Well, first of all, I'm biased. I'm Israeli. So there's no question about.

Srini Rao

Mm-hmm.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Omer Golan

bias here, but I'm also, I think I carry some unique perspective about what's happening today. When I was growing up, my father, even though he's right-wing, all of his friends are Palestinians. He believes in Zionists. He believes that Israel should be.

should belong to the Jewish people, but we also believe in coexistence and believe that we are able to live together. Zionism, at least in our version of it, in the family is still having a country that is multicultural and where everyone can coexist and live together, but at the same time, it's also a place for Jewish people to be able to come from all over the world and find refuge.

So I was growing up, I was very interested in the Jewish undergrounds that kind of led to the establishment of Israel as a country as we know it today. When I was 18, I was drafted to the army. I'll show you where the army is mandatory in Israel. Yeah, so it wasn't really a choice whether I'm going to the army. It was just something that everyone does. Or the Igor Jel. So I chose the army.

Um, when I was 20, um, I was a musician at the time and there's one weekend that I was, um, uh, at home recording some music. And on this Friday morning, I got a call from a friend and said, do you want to come up with me and spend the weekend, uh, at the, at the base somewhere in the West bank? Um, you're going to have fun, um, enjoying with some friends, right? And, uh, she convinced me to join them and volunteer.

to help them doing their duties and so on. We went there, we were sitting in this cafe in the West Bank when this 20 year old guy, he stood up, he went towards the bus station, which was kind of odd because it was super hot, it was like 104. And as I was thinking about why is he going outside of the shade, you know, towards the bus, he hugs me from behind. He put me in an embrace, he say something in my ear.

Omer Golan

And he detonates, he detonates himself. He had 15 pounds of explosives in a school bag that he carried that he had between him and me. Um, and he, then he detonated it and exploded. And, uh, it was one of the first suicide bombings in Israel in, um, in late 2000. Um, it's, it's a pretty long and gruesome story, but the short of it, I, um, I lost, um, I died for a few minutes. Someone, uh, someone, um,

came and found me and resuscitated me and kept me alive until an ambulance showed up. And I woke up a month later in the hospital where I spent about a whole year trying to recover from that. Everyone expected me to be angry, I guess. And maybe it's part of this time I was angry. But I came out of it really realizing that, you know, my father's, you know, right-wing opinions are wrong.

that the only way that I can, at least to me, right? The only way that I thought we could stop this mad bloodshed between us is peace. And I went and did a degree in social studies. I learned a lot about, we took a lot of courses in our history and trying to figure out how the undergrounds saw themselves in liberating the country and so on. And I realized that

Even today after October 7th, and I lost friends and family in October 7th. It was, it was a, it was a disaster from, you know.

Even after that, I think that the only thing that can save both of our people is peace. And what you see in the news today is that we have leaders that are abusive on both sides. We have leaders that don't lead, that are selfish. And what we don't see on the news today is that there is a huge argument, internal argument, in Israel.

Omer Golan

The prime minister today has maybe 4% approval rate, internal rate, 4%. No one wants him in charge in trying to overturn this and to stop this war is something that a lot of Israelis are actively working towards. I think there's too much death, there's too much suffering, there's too little achievements in this war.

And we're not bringing the hostages back. So, yeah, so I think what people are missing here is that not all Israelis are in the same place, not all Palestinians are in the same place. And our fights are between a terror organization and a terror government.

Srini Rao

Yeah. So I know about the mandatory military service because I feel like everywhere I've traveled in the world, I meet Israelis who have just finished their military service so they have a shit ton of money and they're having like the time of their lives. So what you mentioned, you chose to go to the military instead of go to jail. I'm just curious, are there people who try to avoid the service and flee the country?

Omer Golan

Yeah, you can't really flee the country. It's not gonna help you. What, you flee the country? I'm sure there are plenty of people who flee the country if they never wanted to come back. But eventually you would want to come back, visit your family and friends, and you know, you'll get in and you'll get to jail. It's not an answer. My wife, my partner, is the only person that I know that managed not to do the service.

She had her interview and she just said, you know what, it's not you, it's me. I have other plans. I don't think I'm good at taking orders and we would not be a good fit. She's, and she, and they told her, are you sure it's gonna be good for you? You're gonna have a lot of opportunities. You're very smart, you're titty. And she said, yeah.

Srini Rao

Wow, and she got out of like what is mandatory for all citizens by doing that?

Omer Golan

I don't think it's me. I don't take orders. I don't like, I want to travel. I want to do things. It's not, it's not, it's, you know, I'm not into that very much. And they just let her go. I don't know any single person. I know people like who went to this interview naked and trying to be, to pretend to be crazy and doing all kinds of things, right? Like, like none of them got out of it. They're like, yeah, yeah. Either you're going into a mental hospital or.

Srini Rao

Wow.

Srini Rao

None of them got out of it.

Omer Golan

You're going into the army, there's no question about it. And so she's the only person that I know.

Srini Rao

and your wife played it straight and just basically said I don't think this is a fit? That's amazing!

Omer Golan

She's always been authentic and I think she was very lucky and very often she gets her way.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Well, you know, so you mentioned sort of, you know, this narrative you grew up with. I had a guy named Jonathan Kislev here who was an interdisciplinary artist. I remember I, yeah, I remember that was one of my favorite interviews. And I was like, wait a minute, you're a peace activist who served in the Israeli military. And the story that he shared with me that always stayed with me.

Omer Golan

I'm not a gelatin.

Srini Rao

was when he was a kid, somebody asked him if he wanted to go paint with some Palestinian kids. And at first he told me, he said, I was scared. He was like, no, he's like, I'm gonna get murdered. Those are terrorists. And he said that the thing that taught him was when they came together, these kids, Palestinian and Israeli kids together painted a mural. And it was like, wow, so we can either paint murals or we can build walls between each other.

Omer Golan

Thank you.

Omer Golan

I met Jonathan at one of these events and meetings of the bereaved family circle. It was a group of artists, Palestinian and Israeli artists, that met somewhere in East Jerusalem, in Palestine, just on the other side of the separation wall. We've done the weekend together. I was terrified.

to be honest, I was trying to plan a concert on the separation wall with the conductors, Ubimeta and hundreds of musicians and people and participants. And I realized that, you know, we talked about control. I was trying to control everything remotely without getting their own location. Cause I was triggered constantly by my PTSD of getting close to the separation wall. And I sent people to shoot.

you know, hours long video on both sides of the wall. And I was scouting for location, trying to do everything remotely until I realized I have to, if I really want control, I need to control my PTSD and to allow myself to get close there. And so I signed up to this meeting and we were, I went for a whole weekend to this place. And I asked someone to drive me so I won't be able to get in my car and escape.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Omer Golan

I took a bunch of weed with me to calm my nerves down. And I got to that hotel and I locked myself in my room and I was terrified of living. And when I actually left, I met the Palestinian artist. It was that type of conversation that I had there that got me to realize that how we're more similar than we're different. We are all carrying.

deep generational trauma from how we were brought up and the decisions that our leaders have done over the past 75 years. And that we, not only that we can, but we should coexist. We can help each other grow. So I agree with Jonathan. That's where I met him and I think that we can create together some of the people that I met there, Palestinian and Israeli, like Jonathan.

I'm friends with and I'm in touch with since, you know, it's been 15 years or more since that event.

Srini Rao

Wow. Well, so this time in the hospital, a year in the hospital, what seems pretty much like a near-death experience, tell me something, what decisions did you make then about how you would live your life going forward based on being confronted with your mortality so early in your life?

Omer Golan

Yeah.

Omer Golan

I, first off, I would say I couldn't imagine the future. I was so zoomed in into my trauma, into my pain. I was burned in 90% of my body and I looked like Freddy Krueger. I looked like messed up pizza. After three months in the hospital, they let me look in the mirror and I saw, what I saw was someone that would leave the hospital and would scare little kids every time he leaves the house. I was more worried about the thing that I've lost than the person that I won't be.

than being able to kind of zoom out and see into the future. But I did have one decision, and that decision was not to sit on my ass and postpone things. I remember that in the week before I got blown up, I was thinking, oh, I want to record this album. But I don't have much time here, and I can't make it perfect. If I can't make it really perfect, I should rather wait until I finish the album.

And I wanted to publish a book. And I thought, well, it takes so much time, the editing, the thing, I'll do it when, you know, I'll do it later. Everything, you know, I used to postpone things. And laying in the hospital for a year, I read a lot of books, and had a lot of conversations with people. And I realized that once I'm back on my feet, I can't postpone things. I'm trying to live as many lives as I can to compact them into one. I think I got lucky and I got a second chance of life. I don't know how many of these I have left.

So I want to make the best of the opportunity that I got. And so I appreciate time in a different way. And that's the only decision that I made is to remember to appreciate time and to choose carefully who you're spending it with.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Srini Rao

So I think what strikes me about that, the question that comes to mind is how do people create that sense of urgency within themselves without having to get blown up by a suicide bomber? Because I feel like so often people will just keep postponing, postponing. I see this over and over with people. I remember talking to people who said, oh, I'm going to write a book and you'll meet them like months later. It's like, oh, I haven't started. Or I'll give you the best example. The most.

poignant one. I had two friends. One was a classmate from business school. The other was a friend of mine from high school. The classmate from business school had a really high paying job at a fortune 500 company was doing really well. Wanted to start a business. He had clients lined up ready to pay him. When I met him a month later, he was like, I made a business card. My other friend, my best friend, went, he got laid off from his job six months before his wedding. He had just bought a house with his soon to be wife.

and he's been a guest here on the show. A week before his wedding, he put up a video tutorial on how to use their table, set up a landing page. He came back and that first week he had five calls booked, that first month he made $10,000. That's, I think, the most poignant example of what we're talking about here. So what is it that causes people to keep delaying? And by the way, I just checked on LinkedIn, the friend who printed the business cards is still working at the same company.

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Omer Golan

Oh my God. So I always think this is something that separates entrepreneurs from other people. Many people, you know, entrepreneurs, when we have an idea, we become, and we fall in love with this idea, we become obsessed. We want to immediately...

you know, search how anyone has done this and how it can be done, if it's feasible. We're, we're, we're trying to, we're trying to do something. We, we would put our heart into it very, very quickly. We don't, we don't let it go. Uh, many people, they have these limiting beliefs about themselves, right? They think I'm not good enough or I can't, or this person is great. Greatness belongs to very few individuals. I'm not great.

I can't ever make it. I can't be like Elon Musk, like Adam Newman, like whoever entrepreneur that you think about and you think that you can never be as big as them or as great as them and so why even bother? Those limiting beliefs are actually what my current business is all about. I think that people that are stuck and develop these harmful thinking patterns, they convince themselves that they can't so they don't.

And so that's why I think people are getting stuck and don't come out of it. But I also feel like if you are stuck, if you are feeling uninspired, you gonna have a very hard time to find this inner drive to push through. And you can benefit from finding the power to push your current limiting belief and to imagine better future for yourself.

And I think that's what people should do to get themselves out of this procrastination and out of the getting stuck phase of having an idea but keep it as a conversation piece instead of actually going out and doing something.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Srini Rao

Yeah, you know, it's funny, we're talking about being stuck. Brit Frank, who we had as a guest, who wrote a book about the science of stuck. And she said that whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, when you're stuck in some area of your life, there's some gain you're benefiting in some way from being stuck, even if that benefit is, Hey, I can just complain to somebody about this.

Omer Golan

Of course, of course, but nevertheless it's a narrative. Right, I believe that our brain is programmed with narratives. This little piece of software, of instructions that we give it. If we convince ourselves that we can't do something or it's going to be too difficult or too long or whatever it is that we tell ourselves about ourselves, eventually this is a little code, a little program that teaches us that we can't do something.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Omer Golan

Or you can change that narrative with a better narrative and create a new set of instructions of what's possible to your brain which really change your entire perspective of life. And yeah.

Srini Rao

Speaking of which, walk me through sort of leaving the hospital, the narrative that unfolded in your life and how it brought you to where you're at today.

Omer Golan

Living in the hospital, at the point that I was blown up, I was sure I'm gonna be the next Frank Zappa. I was sure I'm gonna be this incredible musician, write music for everyone, perform and doing all that. I left the hospital, I barely could keep my left arm. They wanted to amputate it. It doesn't work very well today either. I have lots of bullets and shrapnel stuck in my body still.

I lost most of my hearing. I have largely memories or souvenirs physically that got me to believe that I cannot do music anymore. And that's a narrative that I unfortunately taught myself while I was hospitalized, that I can't do it. I can't do it, I can't do it.

And when I left those, I felt like I had this, I left the hospital with an identity crisis. If I'm not a musician, then what am I? And I met half a brother of my father and he was a painter. He changed his career when he was 50 from working in a steel plant and to becoming an incredible artist and painter. And I admired him for making such a change so late in life and I thought, well.

You know, I'm just 21, maybe I can make a change like that. And I love painting. Um, I love watching his paintings. I thought maybe I can be a painter too. Maybe painting can be a parallel language to music that I lost. Maybe it's a different way to do to have some self-expression. And, um, everything I do, I do wholeheartedly, right? So I went and bought all the, all the paints, all the canvases, all the paper, all the medium that I could find in the biggest art supply shop in Tel Aviv.

And I spent the first night with them. I think the first time I was painting 18 hours straight. I took a bottle of wine on my balcony and they started looking at the canvas. And I was so afraid of painting. I started by writing my poetry on the canvas and then painting whatever it made me feel. After that night, I decided I'm going to be a painter and I'm a painter.

Omer Golan

That was, for me, I thought, you know, I found the language that I love and it speaks to me. And I can, it's very similar to music. It gives me the same type of energy that I was looking for. And I became a painter. And how it unfolded from there, I met my wife through a mutual friend. She was dating a friend of mine.

Five days after we started dating, I proposed her to marry me. We got married a month later. I convinced her that she can be a painter too, and that we can live together as painters. And it's going to be a fun, romantic artist life, which we actually did. We had a very fun and romantic artist life for a decade and a half. And then we moved to the US in 2013 to conquer the art world.

But along the way we needed the visa to stay here and we needed the sponsor. We didn't know anyone here. So we set up a tech company to be our sponsor. And now we're doing tech all of a sudden. And I was enjoying it. I was enjoying the entrepreneurship kind of spirit and enjoying building things and inspiring people with

with my visions for the product that we're building and technology that we're developing. And that became for me the thing I love doing most. Entrepreneurship and art are one of the same. I think entrepreneurs are artists and that's what I love doing since. So I'm building companies since we moved here and I'm enjoying this process very much.

Srini Rao

Okay, I got to ask you about proposing to your wife five days after you started dating.

Omer Golan

I know it will be a point.

Srini Rao

There's no way I was going to let that question go. One, that goes against virtually all conventional wisdom about relationships at marriage. And the fact that you're still married says something. It literally, I think that people generally would think you're out of your damn mind if you did that. Why did it work?

Omer Golan

Yeah, first of all, I take risks. Right, our artists, entrepreneurs are risk takers. I felt like she's, I fell in love with her. I felt she's amazing. And I thought, you know, I'm enjoying every moment today. And if tomorrow I'll wake up and I'm not happy, you know, I'll say something. And if I wake up unhappy too many days straight, then I have to change.

And I have to decide that it's not for me anymore. I mean, it's okay to get divorced. It's okay to break up. It's okay to change your mind about things. Nothing is forever, right? And so I think that's how we lived. We were happy and we're happy and we're happy. And like, we keep checking in, are we happy? And if not, then we wanna make a change. And usually we change, we change country, we change careers. And you know what, not only that we're together for, well, it's 21 years now, almost 22 years.

We were working together this entire time. Painting side by side, building companies together. We spent every minute of every day since then, since that time together. And I don't know how it works. I was lucky, I guess. She's my, she's my everything. I enjoy our relationship. We grow together, we change together. And...

Yeah, it makes us feel good.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Well, you know, I think that one of the things that I appreciate about your sort of view on the world and also how you think about technology is it sounds a lot like me. You see technology as a tool for making art more than a tool for, you know, like doing the things that we think that it does. And I've always seen technology as sort of a way to express your creativity because I, this is something that Julian Smith said to me that has

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Srini Rao

honestly been foundational to the way that I think about, you know, the projects that I'm choosing to work on, the things that I want to create. And one of the things he said to me is that every sort of new thing in technology makes something possible that wasn't possible before. And the question you have to be constantly asking yourself is what does make this make possible that wasn't before? Because what you see is the intersections of all these technologies that facilitate the next one.

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Srini Rao

And maybe you don't think of it exactly like that, but it sounds to me like you have this very interesting way of blending the capabilities of technology with your own creativity. Talk to me about that.

Omer Golan

I think technology, you can develop technology that has purpose and it has business purpose and it's still going to be created. It still can be created. I'm looking at the creativity in my business today and before is how you're solving problems, right?

how you inspire people. And I realized when I looked back, and I think about four months ago, I had a big, again, like I have periodically, identity crisis. If I was looking back and I was trying to think what was in common to everything that I did, every project that I did in my life, what did I like about it? What did I like about painting, about music, about building companies, about, you know, everything that I did, what was in common to all of that? That was...

that was filling me up with energy. And I realized that the most creative part was to inspire people. And inspiring people, not just because you can make them money and not just because they can see career or they can see that the solution is great. Inspiring people because you had some idea that they didn't and you make them believe that they can be a part of it. And you actually make them fall in love with your concept, with your creativity.

and in a way fall in love with you. And so I feel like my creativity comes to play here by inspiring people, whether I'm sharing a concept for an innovative technology platform or I'm creating a painting. It's the same feeling for me.

Srini Rao

Yeah. So talk to me about the work that you do with this foundation, because I know that you, you know, we talked quite a bit about sort of dealing with our narratives and deprogramming. Talk to me about, you know, how that happens and what would be the impact if we were to do this at an early age? Because I feel like, you know, sort of emotional intelligence is pretty much left out or emotional literacy, if we can call it that.

Omer Golan

Mm.

Srini Rao

is virtually non-existent in the way that we are educated. And I don't think that's just an American issue. I think that is a global, you know, like that's pretty consistent globally from everybody I've talked to when it comes to the education system.

Omer Golan

Well, first off, I would say we have a lot of global problems that we need to address, right? With this foundation, it's an idea that I had like 13 years ago. I thought, you know, I thought I was progressing in my work. I was getting, acquiring all kind of achievements as an artist, as an entrepreneur, and I was never very fully happy. I always thought, oh, I get the one-man show or solo show in New York.

Everyone congratulated me and congratulating me and I feel, yeah, it's okay. I'm raising money for a business and everyone is saying, Hey, this is great. You did wonderful. And I'm like, yeah, it's fine. And I'm feeling like maybe, maybe it's my character. Maybe I see glass half empty or maybe my past is, is kind of helped me be back, maybe the fact that I'm not living my authentic self, my, maybe the fact that I'm not living who I was meant to be, the musician that I was meant to be.

everything seems a little bit, eh, you know, so-so today. And I thought, what if I had this machine that I can ask it? A simple question, what if I didn't die? What if I didn't serve the military at all? Maybe getting exposed to this alternative outcome can relieve some of this obsession, some of this fear of missing out that I had towards my past. And maybe that would help me to accept it and to let it go and kind of look forward.

And so I was 13 years ago, I asked a friend about it. Like he was the smartest AI person that I knew at the time. And he told me it's impossible to build a machine that can give you a forecast of your, what could have happened. And so just forget it. And I let it go, but I didn't really forget it. And over the years, I keep trying to ping him and get him to come and join my, my startups and he was always busy in, in working on big corporations and.

And so on and about four months ago in the beginning of October, um, I managed to get through to him. And I thought, you know, I want to build this machine that could inspire people, not just by accepting their past and, but also to look forward and inspire them to find the best version of themselves. Um, and I realized it's, it's trauma and it's depression and it's, uh, and it's everyone that feels stuck or inspired.

Omer Golan

There is this huge unprecedented global rise in unhappiness in the world. And I think it reflects this complex interplay of societal, economic, and all kinds of individual factors. Right? You talked about emotional intelligence and that's something that was neglected. I think mental health is another that's been neglected. An average spent of a government on mental health, for example.

in the world today is between half percent to two percent of the overall health budget. So we're not really paying a lot of attention to it as a society. So I set up together with my friend to build a tech organization, a nonprofit tech organization that would address this global challenge with a global solution. We are all tech people. So we thought, how can we build a scalable?

way to reprogram those limiting beliefs, to reprogram those narratives, and tell you a different story. So, what if is offering you, will offer you exactly that, a place where you can ask a personal what if question about your past or your future. It could be what if I didn't die, or what if I didn't get married, or what if I had kids, or what if I had more kids. Or it could be a question about your future. What if I would, I change my career right now and become a chef.

What if I would start a podcast? What if I moved to a different country? What if I would marry this person or do that thing? And the answer would come in the form of a simulation of that alternative outcome, that alternative reality. And you would see yourself taking control over your life and you'll have a new sense of purpose and will strengthen your sense of agency so you can really be a hero in your own story.

I started this in late September, early October, and we're now over 120 people, all volunteers, building this incredible narrative machine, narrative therapy machine, that we hope to help people live happier and more fulfilling lives by better understanding and navigating the forks in the world of life, I guess. That's a nice way of putting it.

Omer Golan

I feel that today we need to kind of foster more empathy, and especially in light of what's happening in Israel and Gaza today, and in Ukraine, in Russia, and in Myanmar and in so many other places around the world. We need to help foster empathy, and we need to help people with their emotional intelligence and personal growth.

And personal growth doesn't have to be personal. It can be something that we can be mutually responsible for as a community. And that's what, that's what we're trying to do with this, with this platform. We want to help you look forward. We want to like, we want to help you imagine and to try and figure out what's the best you, that you can be.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I understand why Michael referred you to me now. He knows that I'm very much an AI enthusiast and I actually see, you know, a lot of potential for good here versus the sort of dystopian future view. Like there are a lot of realities to that. But talk to me from your perspective, like what are the broader implications of artificial intelligence for society at large and, you know, the individual, like where

Like what are they missing and how does it have the power to empower them? I guess is really what I'm trying to get to.

Omer Golan

In the larger sense, I would hope that AI would help people work less and have more free time. That it will change our life around from being operational focused to being more, you know, doing the work that AI can't do. We can imagine things in a way that AI can't imagine. We can dream things and be creative in a way that AI...

still can't and I don't think it will get to that point. So I think as long as people keep thinking about AI as a tool, as a means to an end, then that would be the right way to think about it. I think once you think about AI as anything else that can replace you or you're starting to worry about having an AI girlfriend or things like that, I don't think we need that. I think that we need more time outside machines.

If the machine can help us govern the world in a way that it's fair, then great. It can help us take agency again.

Srini Rao

So it's funny because one of the primary arguments I've made is that thinking of AI as a tool is actually a very limited way to view it. I mean, based on the work that you're doing, I don't think you actually view it as a tool because it so in my mind, I see my view is that AI should be viewed as a partner, not a tool. And that if you're using it as a tool to increase productivity, you basically are the equivalent of somebody who owns a Ferrari and you drive it on surface streets in a school district.

Omer Golan

Ha ha ha. It's...

Omer Golan

No, I understand what you're saying. I understand why, because you know, because the biggest difference is that AI has agency, it can make decisions. I get that, but it still can be a tool, right? It can still be your chief of staff, it can still be your, the assistant that gives you infinite memory and can do infinite tasks simultaneously and can be responsible for a lot of different issues, but it's still a machine, right?

Srini Rao

Mm-hmm.

Omer Golan

You can look at it as a partner, if you'd like to give it a personality, great. Give it a personality.

Srini Rao

I've done that. I've actually programmed all my custom GPTs with personalities of some of my favorite TV show characters.

Omer Golan

I would love to have conversations with one of them. I would love that. You know, you're right. But you can use it as a partner. But I just view technology in general as a tool. But it's a very useful tool. Yes, it's a tool that has agency. Yes, it's a tool that can make independent decisions.

Srini Rao

I'll introduce you after this.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Omer Golan

Yes, it can learn faster than you, it can execute much faster than you. But what I'm saying is a tool, you can use it for things that you not normally do. Like for me in the Wadi Foundation, you know, I look at it as a self-help tool. It's something that you can do to empower yourself to be a better person or to be living a better life. Yes, it has agency, it can make decisions, it can decide how to create this simulation

give you tools to turn your inspiration into action, which tools and how to, it can make a lot of decisions, but eventually it's a tool that we're building, with our, we create a purpose for it. And then we give it freedom in confined places. I don't give it freedom to do anything that it wants. My AI in the Wadiff Foundation cannot decide to, all of a sudden to change the treatment plan.

Srini Rao

Absolutely.

Omer Golan

right, or to decide to venture out to different things and to build its own companies or whatnot, it's still a tool that does what it's designed to do.

Srini Rao

Yeah. I mean, I think the fundamental thing that people forget here is that all this is dependent on human input. And it's basically the same sort of computer science analogy of garbage in garbage out, you know, uh, because I built a custom GPT model designed to help me craft a dating profile. And, uh, you know, so like now I use the voice interaction capability of, of the chat GPT mobile app and it's fundamentally changed the way that I interact with

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Srini Rao

I've had hour and a half long conversations on a nightly basis that delve, go into multiple directions. Like I have one that one of mine is basically my goal planning executive assistant. And like I basically go through different scenarios and bounce ideas. It's become this really interesting brainstorming partner that allows me to do things. But even with the one that I built for helping me build a dating profile.

I remember it started asking me questions and I was like, these questions suck. I was like, why don't you ask me some real questions about my life? And in that process, I basically told it, I was like, we need to update your programming. So this interaction gives you a depth that you're not going to get from these bullshit, like, you know, job interview style questions. I think you'll be able to write a much better profile for me by doing that. And so it got to doing that. And I gave it so much information that it came back with profiles. I was like, wow, these are pretty damn good.

And so that opened up like a whole, like other, you know, thread of ideas and conversations. I think that in my mind, it's one of these really powerful tools for exploration that people, so I separated into two paradigms, what I call the better Google paradigm in which people primarily see it as an efficiency tool and the new era of creation paradigm, where people realize that this actually enhances your potential as an artist, as a creator, as an entrepreneur, should you choose to use it

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Omer Golan

Mm-hmm.

Srini Rao

in a way that is about far more than doing things faster.

Omer Golan

You're absolutely right in if people would use this You know, that's that I'm building an inspiration machine and it sounds like you built your own inspiration machine as well I want to give this inspiration machine to people for free so I can bridge this gap of people who needs Who needs to be inspired and maybe don't know how to approach it In and help people, you know find a way to help themselves

Srini Rao

Yeah, I've built a few of them.

Omer Golan

So I wish more people would know how to use these tools in the right way. I think in terms of mental health and in terms of meaningful emotional intelligence, this requires a new comprehensive and accessible approach.

Omer Golan

Just in a way that mental health is still not accessible. So I'm trying to aim to bridge those gaps and offering ways, a new way that is unique and empowering for people to help themselves. And it's not purely machine-based. There is a community of humans behind it as well, because the machine would not give you motivation. The machine would give you inspiration, but it would not give you the motivation.

So I think combining machines and people is what gives you inspiration and motivation to go and do something. It sounds like you have a lot of internal motivation, which is amazing and awesome. We as entrepreneurs that have this, sometimes we take it for granted. Just like one of your first questions, and how do people do it? They don't do it because they program themselves to think that they can't. So.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Omer Golan

We can change that and those tools, AI today can help that. It can help change your perception, can help rewire your brain to help change that narrative so you can actually be empowered to go and help yourself and become better. And then tools like that would be very helpful.

Srini Rao

Yeah. So I want to finish with two final questions. You had this incredibly what by any standard was a traumatic experience, like almost dying. And I've asked people this question in various forms. Why is it that somebody would have the kind of experience you had and respond the way you did. And another person could have a traumatic experience with nowhere

as near as much magnitude and yet have a far more disproportionate response.

Omer Golan

disproportionate. I don't know what's the proportionate response for the...

Srini Rao

Well, okay, so look, I'll tell you, like, to make it a bit more concrete, you have a near-death experience, you have this, you know, like, awakening. I had a breakup that made a mess of my head and I went off the deep end. Like that response was, I mean, you know, and the thing is that I think part of that was my own, you know, emotional intelligence kind of needing to develop. But the thing is that was nowhere as near as traumatic as what you experienced and yet...

like the way I responded, people might think that that's what happened.

Omer Golan

You know, it's so personal. And first I would say unusual events or circumstance, they lead to unusual responses. And it's normal. I don't think there is, you can put the word proportion into pain. Pain is so personal. And I was burned alive and the pain that I had was excruciating. But.

Other people had, you know, they delivered a baby and also had excruciating pain. We both have pain, but we looked at this pain differently because it came from different sources, right? So I feel it's the perspective of where you're looking at your pain from. People came on our platform and ask, what if I gave birth to a living baby? What if I met my parents? But the other people, you know.

I asked what if I didn't die. Other people came and asked what if I went to the wrong business school. Right. Uh, the pain is still real and it's still painful. Um, and it's, it's ours. It's ours to deal with. I don't think proportion has anything to do with it. It was, this breakup was meaningful for you and it cracked something in your, your perception of life on yourself.

your future and what you were thinking about. And it kind of changed the narrative that was in your head, which creates some crisis. It doesn't matter what the event is, if it's dying in a suicide bombing, if it's giving birth, if it's having, experiencing a breakup or getting laid off, pain is real. What changes things for us, what matters is how we deal with pain, how we process it. The only thing that we can really...

Control we can control our travel don't think that we can control is how we respond to things

Srini Rao

Well, this has been amazing. You know, now I know why Michael referred you. I've enjoyed talking to you so much. So I have one final question for you, which is have we finished all of our interviews at the Unmistakable Creative? What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable?

Omer Golan

unmistakable. There is something that you see in a person, sometimes that I recognize in a person, this inner drive, this inner beauty that makes them unmistakable, creative. Something that you feel like this person, no matter what you let them solve, they would know how to solve it. You put them in any room, they can own the room.

Omer Golan

I think being resilient and thinking quickly and listening to your intuition is making you be that person.

Srini Rao

Beautiful. Well, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story, your wisdom, and your insights with our listeners. Where can people find out more about you, your work, and everything else that you're up to?

Omer Golan

People can find me on mywhatif.org or as Omar Golan on LinkedIn. And I welcome any questions about our platform if people want to volunteer in our beautiful organizations where everyone is a hero in helping bring mental health solutions to 100 million people in the next two years. Yeah.

and people can hit me up in any of the social media sites where they can find me. Thank you so much.

Srini Rao

And for everybody listening, we will wrap the show with that.