Victoria Albina | Harnessing the Power of Mind-Body Connection for Optimal Health

Srini: All right, Victoria, welcome to the Unmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Thanks so much for having me. I'm really stoked to be here.

Srini: Yeah, it is my pleasure to have you here. So you're like one of a long line of people who has been referred to us by our mutual friend, Sherry Hale, who I say is the rock star publicist for getting : yourself onto podcasts and nobody is better. Everybody she sends us is an amazing guest, so no pressure at all. But before we get into your work, I want to start by asking you, what social group are you a part of in high school and what impact did that end up having on what you ended up doing with your life, your work and your career. 

Maria-Victoria Albina: interesting. It's really interesting because my first, like the first voice I heard was like, no group.

Srini: Ha ha ha!

Maria-Victoria Albina: But I mean, I guess I hung with like the nerd. Well, I mean, I went to nerd school. So the nerds amongst the nerds, the theater geeks for sure. And mostly, I feel like a lot of my friends were outside of high school. I was a slam poet because it was the 90s and someone had to be. So yeah, so a lot of my friends were in high school or outside of high school.

Srini: Wait, so you said nerd school? You

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep,

Srini: gotta expand

Maria-Victoria Albina: I went

Srini: on

Maria-Victoria Albina: to

Srini: that,

Maria-Victoria Albina: nerd

Srini: I can't

Maria-Victoria Albina: school.

Srini: let that go.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Please don't ever let it go. So I went to classical high school. It was a public school in Providence, Rhode Island, greatest state in the union. I usually don't talk about being from Rhode Island this early on, because I don't want to make people feel inferior. Well, because you

Srini: What?

Maria-Victoria Albina: get it, right? You hear Rhode Island, and you're like, I could never measure up to someone from the greatest state in the union. You get it, right? Obviously.

Srini: Okay, so what's the deal? Why do people from Rhode Island think this about themselves? I gotta know, because my entire perception of Rhode Island is entirely shaped from watching Family Guy, by the way.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Uh, sure. That documentary only captures a small corner of the magic that is the greatest day in the union. And I take great umbrage with your use of the word think. We don't think we're the best. It's a statement of fact. And as a scientist, I don't really believe in fact except for this one.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Everything else is a hypothesis. You know what I'm saying?

Srini: Alright.

Maria-Victoria Albina: But Rhode Island being the greatest state in the union is just, it's a fact. So you're welcome.

Srini: Okay.

Maria-Victoria Albina: And I'm glad that you and your listeners have learned something important today.

Srini: Yeah, so, okay, well,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep.

Srini: you gotta, well, now that you've like, clearly made us aware of the fact that it's a fact and not

Maria-Victoria Albina: It's

Srini: even

Maria-Victoria Albina: a fact.

Srini: an opinion,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Nope,

Srini: explain

Maria-Victoria Albina: nope, zero

Srini: where

Maria-Victoria Albina: percent.

Srini: that, why is this a

Maria-Victoria Albina: It's

Srini: fact?

Maria-Victoria Albina: 20 miles by 40 miles. You can't beat that. I mean, the teeniest, tiniest place with the biggest attitude. You know what it is? It's the Chihuahua of states. I'm thinking that as like an ornery bastard of a Chihuahua sleeps at my feet, we're 20 miles by 40 miles. We will tell you what's up. Rhode Island has attitude. Rhode Island knows what time it is. Rhode Island will cut you. Rhode Island... Rhode Island is just amazing. We have more Dunkin' Donuts than we have people. It's like super parochial and super diverse. And we don't really need to make this whole conversation and advertisement

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: for Rhode Island. But it's just actually a great place. Like all kidding aside, I really love it.

Srini: So explain to me how that has sort of influenced and shaped. One, you mentioned the nerd school, as well as slam poetry and all that. Obviously, like most people I talk to, clearly there's no linear trajectory that leads you to this work. But talk to me about that. How did growing up there in particular influence what you've ended up doing with your life?

Maria-Victoria Albina: that Providence per se did, but yeah, I don't know that growing up in Providence, except that like... Because of all the schools, right, like there's like a bajillion colleges and universities, some excellent ones in Providence, I grew up going to a lot of cultural events, like really having a sort of expansive worldview that Providence really supported.

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Like a lot of, in high school, a lot of our teachers were Brown University grad students, right, student teachers. Like in AP Euro, we read Howard Zinn's People's Guide to the, or

Srini: People's

Maria-Victoria Albina: whatever

Srini: History

Maria-Victoria Albina: it's called,

Srini: of the United States.

Maria-Victoria Albina: People's History, right, my brain farted, thank you, it's been 20 plus years. People's History of the United States, and then crammed for the AP exam in like the last three weeks before the exam.

Srini: Okay, one, like, I read that book, like, I took AP American History in high school and I thought it was mind-numbing. I read that book and I was like, this is fascinating. Isn't that book banned in most high schools in the United States for being anti-American?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oh, that I don't know.

Srini: What?

Maria-Victoria Albina: But we were all about it. I mean, like.

Srini: Well, yeah, it's so brilliant written and there's a story at the very end of it about a girl who was the keynote, was a commencement speaker at UC Berkeley when Madeleine Albright was the speaker.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: She was the university medalist. That girl was one of my classmates from high school.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oh, how fun.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: That's awesome. Yeah, go nerds go.

Srini: Okay, so slam poetry, like what is the deal there? Like I talked to a handful of spoken word poets, like you mentioned it was the 90s, like I went to high school in the 90s. So what's the deal there? Like what did you learn from that has shown up in your work today?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Hmm, slam poetry was just this really, what I'm realizing now a bajillion years later is that it was a somatic practice. So slam poetry was not just about the word, right? It was about the energetic of the word. It was about the felt experience in the body of listening to the words, writing the words, speaking the words, being. in the energetic of the words.

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: And so as a somatic practitioner now, that was my deep desire to be in somatic resonance coming forth through one of the few modalities I had access to as a kiddo. And so it was a way to stand in my authenticity and to share, to try to give... not just language to what was within me, but really an energetic, visceral experience, a somatic experience to what I was learning about myself, managing, moving through as a kid.

Srini: Do you think that is something you knew then or is this like now that you have the word to describe it, is that only something you recognize in retrospect and given you know your experience in your background, what do you think we should be teaching kids in school that they don't learn that is essential for adulthood?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay, well, yeah, no, I mean, okay, so I'm 43. So this is quite a while ago. I didn't know the word somatic. I mean, of course, I was a nerd. So if someone was like, what does soma mean? I would have probably known that it was Greek for body, but somatic practice, that wasn't something. There was no Cathy Kane and Peter Levine and Pat Ogden in my brain yet. I didn't know. what somatic practice was. So no, I didn't know I was dancing with words.

Srini: Mm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: I didn't realize that, that I didn't know it was a visceral exploration. It was just a thing I was doing, you know? And so your second question, let me see if I'm, what are kids not learning in school that they need

Srini: Yeah,

Maria-Victoria Albina: to learn?

Srini: based on the

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah,

Srini: work

Maria-Victoria Albina: somatics,

Srini: that you do today.

Maria-Victoria Albina: right? a really profound way to connect in with our bodies. It's like still shocking to me that kids sit at little desks and are told to be quiet all day instead of moving and being in the movement of being alive as a way to learn, as a way to experience life, as a way to grow, as a way to step into ever greater presence. And so

Srini: So

Maria-Victoria Albina: mindfulness, presence,

Srini: from

Maria-Victoria Albina: intentionality,

Srini: just talking to you,

Maria-Victoria Albina: I feel

Srini: the

Maria-Victoria Albina: like

Srini: way

Maria-Victoria Albina: those are

Srini: that

Maria-Victoria Albina: the things

Srini: you

Maria-Victoria Albina: that people

Srini: describe

Maria-Victoria Albina: really

Srini: it, it sounds like you

Maria-Victoria Albina: need,

Srini: had to.

Maria-Victoria Albina: right? Those are the things that kids aren't learning is how to really be present in their bodies and in the world around them in an intentional, thoughtful, mindful way. I feel like most grownups don't know that, right?

Srini: Yeah, without question. I think

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: that is true. I didn't really even know what it meant to be present, I think, until

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: I started surfing. That was the first

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right?

Srini: experience of real presence

Maria-Victoria Albina: Woo.

Srini: I had.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, the ocean will show you real quick if you're not present, huh?

Srini: Oh yeah, that's an understatement.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.

Srini: Well, just from talking to you, from just the initial bits of our conversation, you seem to have had what sounds like a relatively happy childhood, but a lot of your work apparently stems from the fact that you were dealing with perfectionist thinking, codependency, so talking about one, based on your research, what is the impact on how we've raised our relationship with parents, family, et cetera, on our emotional ecosystem later in life?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, so when we think about the autonomic or automatic nervous system, which is, you know, I feel like probably a lot of your listeners have heard about the vagus nerve and polyvagal theory and we can get into all that nerdetry in a moment if you'd like.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: But when we think about our nervous system, it's taking its shape ages zero to seven. Yeah, which like if you want to go woo, that's also when the chakra system is, it's... is being written, right? Like our version, our story that creates our chakra experience. So the stories of what is safe, what is smart, what is good, what is available emotionally, our stories of ourself and the world are being written in early childhood, right? Our attachment experience and whether it feels safe or smart to attach to others. if it is okay to be securely attached to others, right? Or if our bodies have this understanding and belief that our people may quickly come and go, right? So we shouldn't be too attached.

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: All of that, our attachment system and our nervous system really takes shape in those initial years. So childhood has this really profound impact on our physiology. and on the physiology of our mood, our affect, our emotions, our capacity to regulate our nervous system or not. And so what we get to realize is that's not just how we're treated, what's around us individually, but what the experience within our family blueprint is. Right, so. what did our grandparents teach our parents? What did their parents teach them when theirs and theirs and theirs back and back? And so that's why ancestral lineage healing is so important and coming into awareness, not just of what we experience in our own bodies as infants and children and small peoples, but what was experienced before and before and before.

Srini: Yeah, we had Mark Woollin here. I don't remember the title of his book, but I remember it in detail because it was one of those books I read and literally did every exercise. He talked a lot about inherited family trauma

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: and that a lot of this trauma is actually not even yours and you can trace it back generations.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, that's not wild.

Srini: And I remember a moment in the kitchen in our apartment in Boulder, I dropped some ketchup and I was like, fuck. And my friend was like, wait, what do you do? I dropped the ketchup. He's like. you drop ketchup, what's the big deal? I was like, you don't understand where I grew up. Like literally, my mom will be literally be holding something. She's like, be careful, be careful. You're gonna drop that. So you're like paranoid about everything.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Srini: And I realized it's like, oh my God, that like, you know, like that comes from the way I was raised.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, of course. Of course, right? Because your body when you're a little kid, little kids, human kids, are really vulnerable animals. I've been living in the country outside New York City since the pandemic and it is very common for us to walk outside and find a placenta. And if you look around, there's a baby deer not that far away, which is just wild, by the way, from Brooklyn to And they're born, they stand up, they nurse, they walk through the woods with their mom, you know, like they're capable animals. And we, for a very long time, are very, very vulnerable. We are profoundly dependent on our adults, right? On the bigger mammals around us to keep us safe, to feed us, to water us, to provide shelter. We understand that our survival is dependent on the collective

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: and not just the collective, but these very specific humans. And so we learn early to people please, right?

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: To keep them pleased with us. If they like it when we smile and they all cheer, we smile more.

Srini: Hehehe

Maria-Victoria Albina: If they laugh when we throw a certain thing, we do that more, right? We do the things that get us attention. because attention equals survival, right? Because when the lions come, when the marauders come, the child that he's most paid attention to will be remembered and will be put on someone's hip and they will run out of the village with them, right? And keep them from dying,

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: right? And so if displeasing your mom by spilling ketchup could, in your childhood, child brain may have been tantamount. to death and doom. And I know that sounds a bit dramatic, but right, but children are dramatic, because they

Srini: Hmm?

Maria-Victoria Albina: have to be when you weigh 40 pounds. Right? And you don't run so goodly because you're very small, like everything is a little it's a little overwrought, because you have to survive and you're wholly dependent on others for that survival.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: That's intense.

Srini: Well, you're making me think of my 10 month old nephew and he's suddenly become mobile and I can just see the gears turning in his head every time. Like he's completely obsessed with exploring everything. He opens all our cabinet doors. Like

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: we tried to baby proof that didn't, he was like,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Good

Srini: okay,

Maria-Victoria Albina: luck.

Srini: everything you didn't baby proof, he's like, all

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right.

Srini: right, you guys are idiots. And in my mind, I'm thinking, I bet this guy is thinking I can't wait to walk so I don't have to depend on these idiots to like carry me around everywhere.

Maria-Victoria Albina: For sure.

Srini: Like, because he's so, like, you know, eager to explore the world. It's amazing

Maria-Victoria Albina: Hmm...

Srini: to watch,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: like, you know, the just insatiable curiosity, like that, you know, these young kids seem to possess that we lose as we get older. But like, everything is interesting to him.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, well, everything's brand new, which is wild, right?

Srini: Mm-hmm Yeah Well talk to me about the trajectory that has led you to this work I know that you went to nursing school at UCSF, which is you know, the guy friends have gone to med school there That's the nature of being a Berkeley undergrad as you have friends who end up at places like UCSF Which for people who are listening that don't know it is like I mean, I think as far as you know Medicine goes or the health care goes. It's literally the number one place anybody

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: could go so Talk to me about the trajectory that has led you there, but also like that is really kind of the pinnacle of high achieving environments in a lot of

Maria-Victoria Albina: Hehehehehehe

Srini: ways. And I want

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmhmm

Srini: to have you talk about also what role like that played in the issues that you dealt with, like of inadequacy and self doubt.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay, okay, a lot there. Yeah, UCSF is as good as it gets, man. Feel very braggy about that, and I feel really good about it. I worked my butt off to get into UCSF and to succeed there. Yeah, I did my nurse practitioner training there. Oh, sorry, there was so much in that question, I forgot half of

Srini: Yeah,

Maria-Victoria Albina: it.

Srini: I know. So talk me through the trajectory first of,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay, the trajectory,

Srini: you know,

Maria-Victoria Albina: sure.

Srini: from high

Maria-Victoria Albina: So...

Srini: school to nursing school. Like, how'd you end up there?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, uh... I think what's a lot more interesting is from being a nurse practitioner to the coaching work I do now.

Srini: Okay.

Maria-Victoria Albina: I feel like that's way more interesting because I became an NP. I was an herbalist first, birth doula first, like worked in, really had an interest in medicine outside of the Western allopathic system,

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: more traditional medicine. and really felt the limitations of not being able to order labs and not being able to also to support folks. Yeah, to really not be able to do labs and not get the diagnostics I really wanted. Sorry, can

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: we hold on one second? I just totally lost my train of thought. Where do I want to go here?

Srini: Don't worry, we can edit this out. Josh, do an edit

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oh yeah,

Srini: here,

Maria-Victoria Albina: of

Srini: please.

Maria-Victoria Albina: course. Yeah. Thanks, Josh. Hey, Josh, I'm going to start over. Okay. Sorry, totally lost it.

Srini: Do you want to just start with the trajectory and go from there? So like trajectory

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: to nursing school, to coaching, but start with nursing and then we'll go from there. I'll have

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: Josh cut out this entire

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay,

Srini: part.

Maria-Victoria Albina: great. Yeah, that'd be dope. Thanks, I really appreciate it. Okay, sorry, were you gonna lead me? I'll just

Srini: Yeah,

Maria-Victoria Albina: start

Srini: I'll

Maria-Victoria Albina: or?

Srini: lead it just so you have it. Alright

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay, great.

Srini: Josh, pick up this question here again please. So talk me through the trajectory from nursing school to doing the work that you do today and then also one of the things that I know you work centers around is dealing with perfectionistic thinking and putting others before yourself and a lot around codependency. And as you and I both have discussed, UCSF is about as high achieving of an environment as it gets. I have friends who've gone to medical school, they're one of my friends from college, then he went to Harvard to become a neurosurgery resident. So I know it's a high pressure environment. So tell me about the role that played as well. But first, give me the trajectory that led you there into the work that you do today.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, right on. So I always had a real interest in health and being of service. And medicine just kind of made sense as like a logical next step for a nerds, nerd, nerd. I can't say the word nerd enough. And UCSF was an amazing place to be, but you're right. It was exigent. It was a place that... You know, everyone in my NP class, it was what's called a direct entry program. So it's for folks who were in a second career and everyone in my program had a master's in something else and spoke at least one language other than English, usually two, sometimes three. So from jump, it was a really demanding program where yeah, perfectionism was extremely, extremely rewarded. Right? And being the ever neurotic best at everything you were doing was the expectation. Yeah, I can't imagine any. Yeah, we were all straight A students. You know what I mean? Just like walking in the door. Which like, you know, it's a challenging thing because we. We're damn good clinicians, right? I feel like everyone in my program, everyone who graduated my program with me is someone I would feel safe going to as a clinician. Like actually I recently was picking a primary care provider where I live and I was reading through a bunch of clinicians' profiles and I saw that this woman locally went to UCSF's MEPPIN program by program and I was like, sold. She will do me right, right? She's gonna take good care of me. So there's that. At what cost is the next question, of course,

Srini: So

Maria-Victoria Albina: right?

Srini: that's part of the question,

Maria-Victoria Albina: To

Srini: right?

Maria-Victoria Albina: our,

Srini: So

Maria-Victoria Albina: yeah.

Srini: at what cost? And then also how prevalent was this high achievement expectation in your own childhood? Because as an Indian kid, that was just the default

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmm.

Srini: for us. We're raised in environments of high expectations. You wanna know why Indian kids do well in school is because we get our asses kicked if we don't.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yo, I mean, South American kids too, right? Like there was, I can't even imagine walking into my house with a B plus. Like, or even an A minus, really. Like the thought

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: of that's kind of like, like it never actually, this is so funny, right? It never really crossed my mind that was an option. I'll say like, I. Right? So I remember the day I was in third grade and I was at Molly Lederer's house for dinner. What's up, Molly Lederer? Molly Lederer is as white as a white girl can get. Molly Lederer. Friggin' love her. And her mom serves us dinner and her mom goes, and Molly goes, Mom, I don't like this. And I just remember like, just like gasping. Because right, let me see if you can resonate with this. Because

Srini: Oh.

Maria-Victoria Albina: the concept that you could say, I don't like what's for dinner. Like there's a thing you serve me that I don't wanna eat. I don't like, I'm not into this. I just was like, what? Like, okay, como puedes ser? How can this be? Like that's not, you can't just do that. And her mom's like, okay, honey, I'll make you something else. And I just was like, What?

Srini: Heheheheh!

Maria-Victoria Albina: And I remember I went home and I tried that and my mom...

Srini: Oh wait. Yep.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oh, you've never seen a flip-flop when that chunk left fly so fast, huh? Never

Srini: Well,

Maria-Victoria Albina: ever.

Srini: yeah, it's funny because I think it's very prevalent in immigrant families that you're taught not to challenge authority in any way at all. You kind of take it. So Russell Peters, the comedian, does this bit on talking to a kid at school. And he's like, some white kid basically

Maria-Victoria Albina: Boom!

Srini: calls his mom a B word. And basically, he talks to Russell Peters at school. He's like, man, you can't talk to your mom like that. He's like, no, he's like, it's OK. And he's like, well, you know. I'm gonna get the shit beat out of me if I do that. He's like, yeah, man. He's like, just tell them you're called child abuse. And, you know, like he apparently goes home, tries it and he gets the hell beat out of him. His dad is like, guess what, buddy? He's like, go ahead, call child abuse. You've got, you know, like, but I still got 30 minutes to beat your ass. Like, you know, it's just one of those things. Like, but I realized also that has potential impact. Like I realized what I got when the negatives that came from that was that I didn't have boundaries in relationships as a result.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure. Well, yeah, because you're never allowed to... It's unsafe in the nervous system to say no, to have opinions, to be in your authenticity, to... Yeah, to have... Like, the concept of presence and intentionality is just not there, right? It's not allowable to be your own person with your own thoughts, your own preferences, your own ideas.

Srini: Yeah. So

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right?

Srini: to get it back to the question of

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: what cost does this perfectionist thinking come? And how did it end up impacting you in such a way that it led you to doing the work that you do today?

Maria-Victoria Albina: I mean, I think, well, sort of two parts to that. What I was just saying of not really knowing myself, not knowing what I wanted, what I needed, what I preferred, right? This like going with the flow, again, to a deep cost to myself, because I, what was coded in my nervous system as safe was just going along, was towing a line, was keeping others happy, so that people pleasing was the only way to be safe, it was the smartest way to be safe. And so there were so many moments, not just in my career, but just in life in general, where I deferred having an opinion to everyone else. I deferred... Yeah, making choices for my own life, my own next steps, my own career as well to everyone else because it just, it's what's done, right?

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah. Yeah, and so the work I do now is to help folks but particularly humans socialized as women to recognize us in our own lives because... When it's the soup you're swimming in, it's impossible to see, right? Like I had no idea. I thought I, I'm a very smart, bold woman. Like I'm making choices for myself, but I wasn't. Right. I wasn't. I was making the choices that were felt most safe in my dysregulated nervous system, uh, and would people, the choices that would people please the most. And. It was really once I started to see that I wasn't actually in my autonomy, that I started to understand just what was lacking in all of my different relationships, right? Which was me. I was what was missing, right? Because I wasn't fully present because I wasn't in my authority, my autonomy, my selfhood in a real way. I was in this persona, this camellia, this shapeshifter, this other version of me that kept others happy instead of focusing on my own happiness.

Srini: So how did you become aware of it? Because to your point, like you've effectively alluded to the fact that when you're in this situation, you can't see the forest from the trees. Like, it took me years and years and months in therapy to look back at relationships 10 years ago and be like, oh, the common pattern between every one of these relationships was zero boundaries. Well, I

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure,

Srini: would not

Maria-Victoria Albina: yeah,

Srini: say no.

Maria-Victoria Albina: right on, yeah, of course. Yeah, no, it was the same thing, you know, it was really, I mean, meditation and mindfulness was

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: a huge part of it, and I know meditation's not for everyone, but it has been infinitely helpful in my life and supportive of my growing into being the person I wanna be, the person I am now. doing that deep dive work in therapy to really start to get clarity on

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: what, right? Because the thread through is always oneself, right? So if all of your romantic relationships suck, like what's the common denominator, right? Like

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: wherever you go, there you are. Thanks, Jon Kabat-Zinn. Yeah, there you are. So what are you bringing to the table, right? And who do you keep attracting? What so there's this thing that we do that's understood in the in the neuroscience of human development Called recreation where we are trying reenactment rather where we are trying as adults to Replace situations from childhood with the hope fingers crossed of creating a different outcome So if you grew up with parents with narcissistic tendencies Well, you may seek out partners with narcissistic tendencies or habits as a way to attempt to have that situation work out differently. Now it's really unlikely to sort of in general, right? But by definition, dealing with folks with narcissistic habits, but when you aren't aware of your own role in the middle and you are not living in your authenticity and you haven't done that work, right? And so, the work we need to do is to ask ourselves, what am I recreating? What from my childhood am I trying to rewrite by doing the same darn thing over and over and over again? And instead of focusing on others and relating outward, how can I bring my focus inward and focus on healing myself so I can go back out into connection with others? towards a real framework of interdependence, which is a thing I talk about a lot, right? It's the opposite of codependence is not independence, right? That's some rugged individualistic, that's as white as it gets, right?

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Like that's.

Srini: Well, I think it was Brian Lowry in his book, Selfless, The Social Creation of You. He said, like, there's really no such thing as a relationship when you're, if you're in a relationship with someone, you literally cannot be 100% independent.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Well, sure, but also like I drive on public streets.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right? Like,

Srini: We live in an interdependent world, basically.

Maria-Victoria Albina: right, and I think a lot of us have forgotten that for so many reasons. And we need to remember not just in our minds, but in our bodies, what

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: it feels like to allow for interdependence. Because it's really scary for a lot of nervous systems.

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right? To have that, entwined dependence with others and to remember physiologically, like, I need other people, particularly when other people have not been reliable since childhood, right? Yeah.

Srini: Yeah, I don't remember where, I mean, I think I've seen the pattern enough in enough books where it's like you're trying to recreate, like whatever it is, whatever parent you had the most problems with or

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: didn't get the kind of love you wanted from.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: And remember, I had a relationship that I ended like about two years back and one of my friends said, she's like, this is actually important for you. She said, you know why you finally did the one thing you've never been willing to do with your mom. You said no and you stood up to her, even if it means the relationship ended.

Maria-Victoria Albina: That's a good friend.

Srini: Yeah, it was not what I wanted to have happen, but it was also a useful, like it was the first time when I was like, I've seen this pattern enough times, I'm not gonna repeat it.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Hmm, good for you. Good for you. I mean, that's, that's hard, right?

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Like, it's a whole challenging thing, because, because there is that sort of energetic within us that wants to keep suffering in the same way we've always been suffering, because that old suffering hasn't killed us yet.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right? And so the body is so focused on survival that It's we're willing to put up with and endure and tolerate some BS when we know that BS won't kill us. Oof.

Srini: Well,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oof, I say.

Srini: let's dissect this from a perspective of science, because I'm a person who likes things

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: that are backed by facts. I mean, I have to fact check this whole Rhode Island thing and see if it's been

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: studied in

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah,

Srini: a peer-reviewed journal

Maria-Victoria Albina: it has.

Srini: or not.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep.

Srini: But part of the reason I wanted to have you as a guest was because you had the science background as well, because I feel like there are a lot of people who basically use anecdotal evidence and call it research, which pisses me off.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmm.

Srini: because I think that it's questionable. Like, yeah, there's all sorts of interesting, miraculous work, but like, I think skepticism is important when it comes to, particularly when it comes to personal development literature of any kind. And part of the reason I wanted to talk to you is because there was a science angle to this as well.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right

Srini: So

Maria-Victoria Albina: on.

Srini: talk to me about like how we begin to actually unwind all of these patterns. And you know, you left Western medicine to do this. So talk to me about like, what aspects of Western medicine still influence what you do,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm.

Srini: what role it plays, et cetera.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right on, I actually would say that I'm very much still in, so I had a clinic, I had a private practice in New York City with a several month wait list where I was doing functional medicine. That was before the pandemic. And I would posit that the work that I'm doing now is the deepest root cause functional medicine possible. And so while I was doing DNA tests and PCRs of people stool looking for bacterial DNA, and it was doing all this complicated, cutting edge functional medicine lab testing, and this is it. This is as root cause as it gets. And so again, that's backing up to the vagus nerve and understanding that your autonomic or automatic nervous system impacts every single angle of your physiology. And so the function of the vagus nerve not only impacts how much energy you have, whether you feel like you're under threat, whether you're able to relax, if you're in a happy or good mood, it also directly impacts your capacity to swallow, your cognitive function, your thyroid function, your digestive function, whether you're ovulating or not, right? So reproductive function, reproductive wellness. And then, you know, the wellness of your digestive system, if you're revved up and anxious and worried and spinning around in what's called sympathetic activation, fight or flight, an adrenalized adrenaline based state, when you're in that state for a predominance of time and coming back into that calm resting part of the nervous system known as ventral vagus is challenging for you because your nervous system's jacked up, then of course you're going to have diarrhea. Of course you're not absorbing nutrients from your food. Of course your thyroid is going to be on the revved up side, right? Because our mental wellness and our physical wellness are not separate things, right? Mind and body are one and impact each other directly and proportionally, right? I would have all these patients, my focus was GI, was gastrointestinal health. And so I'd

Srini: Mm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: have patients with chronic IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth,

Srini: Yep, been

Maria-Victoria Albina: heartburn,

Srini: through all that hell

Maria-Victoria Albina: GERD.

Srini: myself.

Maria-Victoria Albina: And so what's really important is to figure out what's the bacteria on board, what's the parasites, what's going on with the microbiome. Actually like you're saying, do the science-ing. Super important. And we can't stop there. So

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: my own story is I had digestive issues from jump, right? From being a very little kid. I couldn't get the help I needed for most of my life. And was really only in my, let's see, like my mid-20s that I started working with functional medicine people, holistic medicine, naturopaths, who did the right testing after having a million stool tests and all the other tests done, but they found the bugs. I had blastocystis hominis, which is a particularly, it's a real jerk of a spirochete. I had Helicobacter pylori, another real jerk of a bacterium. And the bugs I had were very challenging to kill in and of themselves, but were remitting and remitting and remitting because no one was working with me on the... the core causative factor beyond the infection, which was that my digestion was slow because my nervous system was on the defensive, right? And because my nervous system wasn't giving the appropriate first electromagnetic current into the small intestine, it's called the migrating motor complex, the MMC in the small intestine, that's what moves food along through there, bacteria was able to overgrow and see both. And then in my actual gut, that peristaltic signal, that wave-like musculature contraction that also wasn't going, that wasn't getting the correct signaling because vagus nerve, right? Because I was in this self-protective, self-defensive posture against the world, it was so checked out of presence. And so my digestion followed, frankly, because science. And so... I would do the chemical antibiotics, then I would do the herbal antibiotics, I would do a combo of them, I would do all of the things, and the bugs would die, but they would come right back. And the bugs would die, but they would come right back because there wasn't the right energetic through my physiology, and I'm not talking energetic in the woo way, though you know I will go there. I literally mean it the electromagnetic and muscular contractive way to move. my digestion in the way it needed to keep me bug free, right? To keep my microbiome balanced. And so

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: this is what I was seeing in clinic was I was giving people all the right supplements, all the right drugs, all the right nutrition, and they would stay sick. And so I reached a point where it felt unethical to keep practicing understanding what I understand about stress, distress, and trauma, what I understand about somatic experiencing, what what we need beyond Western medicine, beyond functional medicine to get to this root cause of why we're not absorbing. Why does everyone have vitamin D deficiency? Sure, we're inside too much. Sure, we're not

Srini: Whoa.

Maria-Victoria Albina: working. Sure. But why are we not absorbing what we're taking or the sun we're getting? Why are we not absorbing our B12? Why is there so much depression? Why is there so much anxiety? There's a million studies, right? We can talk about connection, we can talk about community, we can talk about interdependence, but what's going on with the nervous system, right?

Srini: So I gotta ask you a question out of personal curiosity. So speaking of UCSF, so I got diagnosed with IBS when I was right out of college.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay.

Srini: I was at a startup that was like a really stressful job. Like I was working probably 12 hours a day, not getting paid. Like CEO

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: was basically firing people every month, three people would get fired.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Startup

Srini: Like you just

Maria-Victoria Albina: life.

Srini: knew

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right.

Srini: you were on the chopping block. I mean, it

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: was like the, you know, like

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: worst possible like first

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep.

Srini: job ever. And I remember I went to like half a dozen doctors and like IBS is really frustrating because like

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep.

Srini: there's nothing you can do, it's

Maria-Victoria Albina: Oh,

Srini: stress

Maria-Victoria Albina: it's a...

Srini: related, whatever, right? And then

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep.

Srini: they give you medication. And I always

Maria-Victoria Albina: Garbage.

Srini: look at the commercials and I was like side effects may include, constipation, diarrhea,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: and cramps. I'm like, wait a minute, how the

Maria-Victoria Albina: Wait

Srini: fuck

Maria-Victoria Albina: a

Srini: is the

Maria-Victoria Albina: second.

Srini: side effect the same thing that

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right? Uh-huh.

Srini: it's supposed to cure? Like I've seen this over and over. And I went to UCSF and I remember meeting a GI specialist there. The guy was actually very. good. And I told him I was like, well, to be honest, the one thing that works every time and my friends would see it like we'd go out drinking on a night and I would be, you know, like in hell the next morning when we're going out for lunch. And I'd be like, all right, I'll give me like five minutes. I will meet you guys there. And I would smoke a bowl and they would

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: come back and they'd look at me like what the hell happened, dude? Do you look

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right.

Srini: like a new person?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yep.

Srini: And so I asked the doctor he says have this is before weed was leaving California. He's

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure,

Srini: like,

Maria-Victoria Albina: sure, sure.

Srini: well, if it works, do that. But

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right

Srini: I'll

Maria-Victoria Albina: on.

Srini: tell you what changed it. It was amazing. To this day, I will never forget this because I had IBS probably from the time, I mean, and it still flares occasionally, it's not bad, but it was from when I was right out of college to like graduating from business school almost. And it was when I stood up for the first time on a surfboard, I remember getting out of the water like after surfing that day, I'm like, holy shit, it's gone.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Srini: There's like this lightness, because like, you know what IBS is like, it feels

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: like this just weight is in your stomach. and like you always feel like either bloated, full, and I'm like, wait a minute, I haven't felt

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: this in decades. Like,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah,

Srini: so

Maria-Victoria Albina: Joy will

Srini: explain

Maria-Victoria Albina: do that.

Srini: to me what, like talk to me about the science of what the hell was happening there.

Maria-Victoria Albina: I mean, joy will do that, right? Like

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: being in your joy, being present.

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: So, okay, dude, how hard do you want me to nerd right now? Because I

Srini: as

Maria-Victoria Albina: will,

Srini: hard as you can.

Maria-Victoria Albina: okay, great. I just need to double check, because Osha, you have closed toe shoes, pocket protector, do you have some kind of safety goggle on? Are we good?

Srini: Yep.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Can I nerd safely? Okay, great.

Srini: Go for it.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay. So again, the autonomic nervous system. So it is ruled by the vagus nerve. It is the 10th cranial nerve, the longest nerve in the human body. It runs from the back of the thinking part, from the brain all through the middle of the animal and it innervates or gives nerve function to most of you. So the vagus nerve is looking inward and looking outward. And there's several layers to this, but interoception. looking inward, your body is constantly through the vagus nerve and the autonomic nervous system, checking out the body and going, we cool? You okay? Liver, how's it going? Digestion? You cool? You good? We good? And it's constantly looking outside, exteroception. There's others, proprioception, baroception. We're gonna leave those be. But the body is constantly saying, am I safe from the outside? Am I safe within? Am I safe from the outside? Am I safe within? Holy shit, is that a lion? Stop. The digestion. Oh no, it's a tabby cat. Forget it, forget it. Go, go, go. Oh, she's got diarrhea. It's fine, whatever. Okay, makes sense. We stopped, we went, we stopped, we went. So the body is constantly scanning for danger on the horizon. Constantly believing that every stick in the grass is a cobra, because it's safer to believe that it's a cobra and be proved wrong than to accidentally step on a cobra. Makes logic, right?

Srini: Hmm?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay, cool. So this system of all, you know, started out in humans a bajillion years ago, and that's an exact number, and hasn't really evolved much since, right? We're still sort of, it is in a way binary, safe, unsafe, safe, unsafe, and so the autonomic nervous system is scanning the world and saying, will that murder me? And... used to only sound the alarm of murder is nigh when murder was nigh. And so that signal sounds like activation through fear into first an attachment cry. So let's say you're a baby and you're in a crib and you hear a really loud noise. The first thing you're going to do if you get frightened is release this attachment cry, right? You're gonna cry out and see if someone will come save you, right, see if there's a grownup. If a grownup comes and they settle you and soothe you appropriately, we're all good. Your nervous system will stay in what's called ventral vagus. That is the safe and social part of the nervous system where everything from your brain to your pooping, everything works great. Right? Like you're full on, like everything is at championship level. Now, let's say nobody comes, right? Or somebody comes and they yell at you, or they come and they negate your feelings, or there's another loud crash or a bang or a boom or the roar of a lion. From there, the baby will, you, the baby will go from ventral vagal, the safe and social part of the nervous system, into sympathetic activation. So the HPA access, the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal access will get turned on and your body will start to secrete adrenaline, aka freak out juice into the body. Adrenaline revs us up, you know, I always talk about it like it's cocaine like, colloquially speaking. It revs the body up in case you need to fight or flight. Remember, the first thing you did as a scared human is you called out for other humans, right? We always seek social connection, social engagement first. When it doesn't arrive, we attempt to flight first, right? We recognize as humans, we're quite small. And don't come at me with like, I'm a six four, whatever dude, you're way smaller than a lion. You're way smaller than a hippo or an elephant, right? So we wanna get the... hell out of dodge. And so our bodies activate, send all the blood to heart and lungs, feets and paws, right? For running, pumping blood, blood pressure goes up, blood, your heart rate goes up, your breathing goes up into the top of your lungs, you're ready to escape danger. What else does this sound like? Oh, that's right. A panic attack, right? Your

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: body goes into this revved up state, revved up state, revved up state. Now, let me ask you a question. If you thought there was a lion coming to destroy you and your entire village and you had just eaten a cheeseburger, let's say animal style, do you want your body to stop and digest it or do you want to keep running?

Srini: No, you want to keep running.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Dude, right? And so that is the digestion, digestive health, IBS, nervous system link. When your body goes into sympathetic activation, digestion stops. Let's say you cannot fight or flight. You can't get out, because you're a baby in this example. You're in a crib, you can't get out. And even though you're panicking and you're screaming and you're freaking out, you can't get out of the crib and you can't get away. Then we go from that freaked out sympathetic and we shut down. And so this is when there's a shift from endogenous endorphins to endogenous cannabinoids to endogenous. endorphins. So endogenous cannabinoids are released in the first part in sympathetic to help you get the hell out of dodge. And then if that doesn't work, the body starts to shut down your emotional connection and presence in the world. And that's what endogenous endorphins are released so that your pain receptors are mediated. And that's where a really smart reason, which is lions, right? So if you can't fight and you can't flight and the lion bites you, In this third stage, you are in what's called dorsal vagus. Your heart rate is low. Your pulse is low. Everything in the body is depressed, including your capacity to feel pain, right? Your pain receptors are way mediated. Your emotions are blunted, right? You're not feeling the fullness of mood. You're just feeling low. because your body doesn't want you to actually be present and associated with self in this dangerous moment. Right, and so that's dissociation in depression. Or when somebody like, yeah, you're at dinner with somebody and then all of a sudden they're like, get that four-majillion foot stare and they're just not in the room. Right, that's dissociation. That's checking out of the moment. It's a survival skill. It's your body trying to keep you alive while something terrible is happening or while the memory of something terrible is happening. Your digestion doesn't work then either. So whether it's anxiety, worry, panic, or depression, check out unintentional living, your digestion doesn't work in either state. So you in that stressful startup, me and most of my life, our digestion was like, you know what, forget about it. Just forget about it. There's way more important things to be doing. And so we're not going to turn on those systems I was talking about earlier, the migrating motor complex in the small intestine or the peristaltic wave in the large.

Srini: Mm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right? And so it's this bi-directional thing where when our mood is low, when we are depressed or when we are anxious, secondary to life, whatever bacteria, good and bad, may be on board whatever good we're lacking as well. I mean, we could leave the microbiome aside for two seconds, but our bodies are constantly getting these signals of safe or unsafe, digestion on, digestion off. And so that's why when you ask, like, what helped the most? Presence, connecting with my intuition, coming back into intentional living. That is what helped to heal my gut the most. And a fistful of antibiotics, right? Like I've never, I'm, yes. UCSF trade and NP first and foremost, right? Please find the bug, kill the bug, but the bug won't stay dead and won't stay gone. If you are ramped up in sympathetic activation thinking the world is ending, or you're collapsed into dorsal, when all that adrenaline's gone and you're in this acetylcholine state, your gut's still not moving. Right?

Srini: No.

Maria-Victoria Albina: And so we really need a truly holistic approach, both to mood and to digestive wellness, GI wellness, if we're to find health in either camp.

Srini: Yeah. So this raises several questions, some of

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: which are related and some of which are not.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: It got me thinking about my 10-month-old nephew. So my sister came back to my parents' house for maternity leave, like we were all here, me, my sister, my brother-in-law, my parents,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: and both my parents' siblings. So this guy literally, every day of his life from the

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: time he was two weeks old, woke up like fucking Eddie Murphy in Coming to America,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Bye!

Srini: like a damn prince. Literally every morning he would wake up and everybody's just waiting and he wakes up and everybody's there looking at him. This kid wakes up with an ear to ear smile on his face every morning.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Srini: Oh yeah, he's like the happiest like most

Maria-Victoria Albina: I mean,

Srini: confident

Maria-Victoria Albina: of course.

Srini: baby you'll ever

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: meet. And so I like my sister talked to me like he really does not like it when people leave like he's starting to become more aware of that like he, you know, he got upset because he knew, you know, my parents and I were visiting and he loves having people around like that's his element. He's like

Maria-Victoria Albina: Right.

Srini: the most social kid. He's also the biggest flirt. Like he likes

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Srini: beautiful women a lot. Like literally had a friend come over, he looks at my friend, kind of eyes him

Maria-Victoria Albina: know

Srini: up and

Maria-Victoria Albina: that

Srini: down.

Maria-Victoria Albina: we need to sexualize a 10 month old.

Srini: Well,

Maria-Victoria Albina: I don't think he's

Srini: it's,

Maria-Victoria Albina: flirting. I think,

Srini: yeah, but he's funny.

Maria-Victoria Albina: I mean,

Srini: He's

Maria-Victoria Albina: okay,

Srini: hilarious.

Maria-Victoria Albina: but he's

Srini: It's, but,

Maria-Victoria Albina: connecting

Srini: but

Maria-Victoria Albina: his social

Srini: yeah,

Maria-Victoria Albina: engagement

Srini: it's,

Maria-Victoria Albina: system is active. Let's call it that instead of flirting, shall we?

Srini: well, we like to call it flirting because it's more fun. But anyways, point being, the reason I'm asking about this is like, What impact does that whole idea of just waking up surrounded, it's almost like he's being taught, yeah, I'm the king of the world and everybody's here for me. And something tells me that has had a profoundly positive impact on his

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah,

Srini: emotional development.

Maria-Victoria Albina: it sounds like it. I mean, it sounds like he has what's called secure attachment, right?

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Where he believes that it's okay and it's safe to attach to other people. Because it sounds like it's only ever been safe to be connected

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: with other people. That's always been a healthy thing in his world that's led to more and more joy. And that's a really beautiful thing.

Srini: Yeah, I love it. We're just like whatever we have to do to keep this going.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, for sure.

Srini: But then, you know, like I don't remember who it was. Even some famous authors like nobody gets out of childhood with that enough scars to like write a book, right? Basically, I think all of us who have been through childhood have enough material that we could literally write novels for decades if we wanted to, like half the time, I feel like my work is an attempt to solve all the issues of my childhood.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmm.

Srini: So Leo so talk to me about that, you know, we kind of alluded to it earlier But like, you know, we have all this baggage that we have to unwind So yeah, we started with the nervous system stuff like the sciencey stuff Let's talk

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: about the sort of emotional regulation component of this Like how does a person go from being anxious overwhelmed and perfectionistic to somebody who like is just okay with themselves? or to put it simply be the way my nephew is like just go to

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmm.

Srini: the world like I'm awesome and everything is awesome.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, I mean, I work with people for many, many months, if not years, right? This is the work of a lifetime is this kind of healing to bring ourselves into regulation. So people hear that word, you know, there's a lot of like, it's like hashtag bountied about, bantied about a lot and is worth defining. So when we're talking about regulation in the nervous system, we're talking about not just being this joyful 10-year-old all the time, but rather having the full range of human emotions and being able to bring ourselves back into ventral vagal with love and care and kindness and compassion, right? So not shutting down our lived experience outside of ventral vagal because it's important to have adrenaline. It's important to be quiet, right? Like there's no shavasana. There's no meditation without dorsal. which is the, at its extreme, the freeze part of the nervous system. We need every part of the nervous system, right? It's all towards our benefit when it's in balance, and regulating our nervous system is about our capacity to restore that balance within ourselves. So, with that said... There are so many modalities for coming into ever greater regulation within ourselves. I use a lot of somatic or body-based practices and that's what I teach my clients. I have a six month program called Anchored, where we dive deep and really take a look at what our thought habits are and what we're holding in our bodies because we know very clearly that the stress distress and trauma of not just our lifetimes, but like we said, a million hours ago at the start of this conversation, our ancestral trauma lies in the body, right? It's a physiologic, we can talk about epigenetics, right? We can talk about how things are carried from one generation to the other. And we are most able to show up in the world as the version of ourselves we want to be. loving, creative, caring, kind, compassionate, generous, accepting when we are showing up for ourselves in those ways and when we allow others to show up for us in those ways. Right? So it's not just about being kind, but it's about receiving love and care too and beginning to learn how to have our own backs and to show up for ourselves and be compassionate with ourselves so that it feels ever safer for others to be kind to us because for a lot of us that wasn't safe in childhood right

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: uh it wasn't a safe thing to have attention um or to receive care you know it's beautiful that it is for your 10 month old nephew And most of us have some work to do to get back

Srini: Yeah.

Maria-Victoria Albina: to there.

Srini: It's funny you say that. I did the landmark forum, and I remember they, earlier on, they talk about the landmark forum for kids. And the landmark forum for kids is like four hours. The

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm.

Srini: one for adults is like three and a half days. And

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmm.

Srini: I was like, OK, well, they're like, because you guys are all screwed up. Kids just click. They get it, and we're done with them in like an hour.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm-hmm, right.

Srini: Because they don't have as much baggage as you guys do.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure. Yeah, they've been around a lot less time.

Srini: Yeah. Well, so I think I want to wrap this up. Like, you know, people are going to walk away from this conversation probably with a lot of questions. And like, if we were to like day to day, like on an everyday basis, like implement these ideas into our life, like where would you have somebody start?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Presence. Presence is my immediate go-to. I think most of us are walking around, and I know I was, and I know most of my clients are walking around really detached from self, which again is a beautiful survival skill that really served you at some point. And we reach a point in our adult lives where not being present to... this short human experience no longer serves us. Being checked out, being in a story of our own creation, not being in our human bodies, not being really alive in our lives is detrimental to our growth and to our evolution as people, as souls or spirits or whatever your own personal languaging is.

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: And so I would really start with presence and cultivating presence. And that can just be as simple and easy because I love simple and easy. The nervous system loves simple and easy. Just getting present to the choices you're making on the daily and asking yourself if you are making those choices from choicefulness or if you're making them from habit. So do you actually like drinking coffee in the morning? Like, does that feel good in your tummy? Does that, is that a real loving choice that you are making for yourself every day? Cause I was just doing it out of habit. I was just waking up and drinking coffee because I don't know, it's the morning, isn't that what we do? But it actually didn't feel good in my body. And I never stopped to ask till I stopped to ask. Right. And so from there, do you like the clothes you wear? Do you like the job you're going to? Do you, right? Starting to. hold space for your own truth to shine through you. And that can be really challenging when you've never given yourself that spaciousness and when the world hasn't given you that spaciousness. And so you get to go as slowly as you need to, to not freak your nervous system out. But get started, right? That would be my best advice. Just get started.

Srini: So I realized I had one question that I didn't ask you specifically about dissociation and

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure.

Srini: kind of like this is like I had a breakup that just made a mess of my head. And I remember

Maria-Victoria Albina: Hmm.

Srini: right after it happened, I think I drank like half a bottle of whiskey and smoked two packs of cigarettes in one day.

Maria-Victoria Albina: sure.

Srini: And I realized I was trying to numb whatever I was feeling.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah,

Srini: So

Maria-Victoria Albina: of course.

Srini: explain that to me like explain the signs of like what the hell is going on there from a nervous system stamp.

Maria-Victoria Albina: why you were buffering against your feelings.

Srini: Yeah, like why was I doing everything I could to, like I realized, I was like, I was trying to numb, you know, whatever pain I was feeling.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, I think for most of us were not taught how to be with our feelings in a way that felt safe or okay. Right. A lot of us learned, you know, I feel like it's the dominant narrative in the in the US, right, that like our feelings and it's the it's the we live in a culture of numbing, we live in a culture where we're taught to buy things, right? To

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: have a coke, to have more booze, to really step out of consciousness and step out of grounding in self. And so, because we don't learn how to be with our feelings safely, safely meaning in a way that doesn't completely sort of flip the lid on our nervous system, when large feelings arrive, we've been really inculcated, we've been really trained up to want to escape those feelings at all costs, right? And particularly when having big feelings is tantamount to death and doom in our nervous system, particularly when growing up, we didn't see adults having healthy connections with their own nervous systems, right? And their own emotions

Srini: Well, I'm

Maria-Victoria Albina: and

Srini: laughing

Maria-Victoria Albina: feelings.

Srini: because Indians, I jokingly say, like, you know, like I don't like, I remember my therapist is like, oh, your love languages are, you know, physical touch and words of affirmation. I was like, well, Indian parents are illiterate when it comes to those two things.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Srini: Like, we're just not physically affectionate people. Like, at least in my family, they're not.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah,

Srini: I mean, with a baby, it's totally different. That kid gets

Maria-Victoria Albina: sure.

Srini: like, you know, more affection. He's also the first grandchild. So he literally

Maria-Victoria Albina: Aww.

Srini: is like a prince.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: But like I noticed, that was one thing I noticed is that like... I think in the like 40 something years my parents have been married, like I seen them kiss each other once and I remember

Maria-Victoria Albina: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Srini: the first time I saw it I was like, oh, that's disgusting. I don't want to see that again because it's just like we never saw our parents be physically affectionate with each other or even with us. Like

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: when my dad, like my sister hugs my dad, it's the funniest thing because it's so awkward.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Mm hmm. Yeah. And so those things that we're not used to feel uncomfortable in the nervous system, they don't feel safe. They don't feel smart, you know? And so the body tries to avoid those sensations again, because

Srini: Mm-hmm.

Maria-Victoria Albina: if we haven't done that thing and survived, where's the evidence? Right? We have no evidence within us that we will survive, whatever it is. So why would we do it? You know?

Srini: Well, this has been absolutely fascinating. I have one final question for you, which is how we finish all of our interviews with the unmistakable creator. What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable?

Maria-Victoria Albina: What is it that makes someone unmistakable? Sorry, another Josh moment. I'm unmistakable. I'm like, I have to go, like unmistakeable. I don't understand. I'm sorry.

Srini: Do you want me to give you some context?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah.

Srini: Okay, so for, you know, because I wrote a book called Unmistakable, you have to actually define terms when you write a book. So, like, I define Unmistakable as something that is so distinctive that nobody could do it but you. Like,

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay.

Srini: it's immediately recognized as, like, your work. You wouldn't even have to put your name on it. Like, that's

Maria-Victoria Albina: Sure,

Srini: in terms of creative work,

Maria-Victoria Albina: yeah

Srini: but

Maria-Victoria Albina: of

Srini: that's

Maria-Victoria Albina: course.

Srini: the core idea.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Okay,

Srini: So let me ask the question again.

Maria-Victoria Albina: okay great.

Srini: We'll cut out this.

Maria-Victoria Albina: Thanks

Srini: So

Maria-Victoria Albina: Josh.

Srini: what do you think it is? What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable?

Maria-Victoria Albina: when they are standing in their authenticity. Yeah, when we are standing in the truth of who we are, we are unmistakably ourselves. I must say I'm tempted to go into a non dualistic retelling of the whole concept of being unmistakable. But I think it's really when we're standing in our truth as the person we know ourselves most to be.

Srini: Well, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story and your wisdom and insights with our listeners. Where can people find out more about you and your work and everything else?

Maria-Victoria Albina: Yeah, so my podcast is called Feminist Wellness. It's for humans of all genders. And it's about these things. It's about the psychology of wellness, the polyvagal theory, all kinds of nerd talk over there. And that's free wherever you get your podcasts. You can find me on the Gram. I give good Gram at Victoria Albina Wellness. And if you head on over to my website, So if you go to victorialbenaud.com slash unmistakable, you can download a suite of meditations, inner child meditations, nervous system exercises for free just for listening to your show.

Srini: Amazing. And for everybody listening, we will wrap the show with that.