Wendy Parr | How Creative Obsession Fuels Your Motivation

Wendy Parr

This would be perfect timing, you know, with babies. Turns out it's not, but it's okay. Ha ha ha.

Srini Rao

Yeah, well, it's kind of funny because like I, you know, I goofed on my schedule, um, because I had the pre COVID schedule and I, you know, I bought a season pass for snowboarding. So I basically was like, shit, I had all these Monday and Friday interviews and I was like, all right, those are my snowboard days. I need to basically redo this entire schedule. So I literally just, you know, rescheduled a bunch of interviews and I basically told my little people I'm traveling. I'm like, I'm kind of true. Um, but, uh, but yeah, it's just one of those things where I

Wendy Parr

Oh, there you go.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, it's okay.

Srini Rao

I realized I was like, ah, I need to take every other week off. Because the other thing is, if I try to do more than one interview a day, the quality of the interviews goes down.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, I can imagine. You need to be able to focus and be on your game.

Srini Rao

Well, I mean, you know my show, right? So like, I don't do shallow sort of, go through a list of questions interviews. So I realized, it took me a while to see this, that it was more cognitively demanding of a task than I thought, and that when I did more than one, inevitably the quality started to go down.

Wendy Parr

Right.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. And also awesome that you're snowboarding.

Srini Rao

So, anyway.

Srini Rao

Yeah, are you a snowboarder?

Wendy Parr

I, it's interesting because where do you go by the way?

Srini Rao

So I live in Boulder. There's a place called Eldora that's like 20 minutes from here I I'm still not great at driving in the snow and Eldora is like, you know, usually a pretty quick drive with minimal You know having to go through heavy amounts of snow Despite having an icon pass and only that because it's 20 minutes away I can get up there in the morning get in like three four hours and then be back here and still get in half a day of work

Wendy Parr

Fantastic.

Wendy Parr

Reflect. Perfect.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, that's fantastic. Good for you. No, I grew up skiing. I started skiing when I was three and I haven't skied since I was 21. So, and my friends were gonna go to Big Bear and we were talking about, let's go skiing. And I was like, I literally haven't skied in decades. So, and I've never, snowboarding didn't exist yet. And I stopped skiing before. So I've never tried snowboarding. I've always been two legs.

Srini Rao

Oh wow.

Srini Rao

Okay.

Srini Rao

Okay.

Srini Rao

Well, it's funny, I tried skiing once in college and I was like, I'm gonna do the splits and never be able to have kids, fuck this. Like, it just was one of those things where I was like, poles, skis, and even snowboarding didn't click for me the first, you know, several times. It was only after five years of surfing where it just kind of was like, going from the water to the mountain was a pretty easy transition.

Wendy Parr

Eheheheheheheheh

Wendy Parr

I'm sure.

Wendy Parr

That I would imagine, yeah, exactly. And I don't skateboard, so I've always thought, you know, and I grew up on roller skates, so I was like, I've been used to using both my feet. But it could be fun to try it for sure.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

Give me just a sec, I need to close the curtain in my office real quick.

Srini Rao

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's one of those things where, you know, it takes you into that whole idea of flow. Like I realized, was like, oh, I get so many more good ideas on the mountain than I, you know, than when I do when I'm sitting in front of my computer. But you know, I think we're just so conditioned to work, work. But yeah, I'm looking forward to talking to you. It's funny because, you know, I saw you work with Sara Bareilles. I remember we had a guy who worked in the music industry. What the hell is his name? David something or other.

Wendy Parr

You're good.

100%.

Srini Rao

I don't know if you remember his name, but I sent copies of Audiences of One Around and he actually gave it to somebody on Sara Bareilles' crew. I was like, oh cool. Because it's kind of funny, I heard the message of that book being echoed throughout popular culture over and over and over again. Like Joseph Gordon-Levitt kind of mentioned the core message of that book when he talked to Tim Ferriss. And it was hard for me because I had to come to terms with the fact that, okay, ironically

Wendy Parr

Hmm.

Srini Rao

I'm worried about this book selling more, which is literally, I remember my sister was like, OK, she was like, you basically are not believing the very thing you wrote when you're concerned about that. I don't know if you read that book or not. Yeah, I don't know if you got that book, but I'd love to send you a copy.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, but it's so human. It's human.

Wendy Parr

I did not. I'd love to read it.

Srini Rao

Yeah, I mean, so basically the premise was like an audience of one reclaiming creativity for its own sake. And it was kind of interesting, you know, when we talked about this in the interview, but like when I looked at, you know, numerous successful artists throughout history, it was, you know, it's funny because it's that sort of counterintuitive lesson of, oh, if you focus on the process and yourself and what you want to create, ironically, the results just end up being so much better than if you focus on trying to reach a audience, you know, with your worker, because then it doesn't sort of come from a genuine place.

manufactured and inauthentic and That that's a really hard thing for people to get their heads around you know when you're in this sort of metrics driven world and I think it will be interesting to talk to you about that, you know from a music industry standpoint But yeah, I'd love to send you a couple of copies

Wendy Parr

100%.

Wendy Parr

Sure, please, I'd be so happy to read it. Thank you. But again, I think that you can't fault yourself for falling into A, an experience of being human and B, for being influenced by our entire society and culture. So, I think we all try to find what works for us and...

Srini Rao

Yeah. Totally.

Wendy Parr

We have to practice it and practice it because every day the world is telling you to do something else. And it comes from, you know, it comes from generations and generations of, as I, I love listening to podcasts and, you know, I was learning that whole idea of like, pull yourself up from your bootstraps and work, work is from Calvinism. And I don't know anything about Calvinism, but it's, it's pervaded our culture, you know, and it has for generations.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Totally.

Srini Rao

Yeah, well, you're saying stuff that we should probably talk about in the actual interview. But are you California native?

Wendy Parr

Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Parr

I am. I spent a lot of my life in New York, but I am a California native, yes.

Srini Rao

Okay, we're in Cali.

Wendy Parr

Born in Sacramento, raised in LA.

Srini Rao

Okay cool yeah I mean my parents live in Riverside so I've spent you know aka the armpit the armpit of Southern California

Wendy Parr

And there we go.

Wendy Parr

Okay.

Srini Rao

As well I always dad my dad I remember in high school he would be like hey You know like I mean my dad knew I wasn't gonna go to UC Riverside despite the fact that he's a professor They even he bitches about his students. He's like some of these students are morons. He's like they're not motivated they try to pull bullshit and it's like yeah dad of like it's you know, sort of the lower tier of the UCs, but He but one of the things he said I remember in high school He's like yeah He's like we're you know an hour from the beach an hour from the mountains an hour You know from being able to play golf in the desert and I was like, yeah that basically means

Wendy Parr

No.

Srini Rao

in the middle of fucking nowhere.

Srini Rao

So, cool.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, but it is that big draw. It's like, again, if you take advantage of being outside, being in nature, you know, getting active and not just sitting in front of your desk, which is essential.

Srini Rao

Totally, totally. Well, let's do this. I mean, let's rock and roll. I'll just say, Wendy, welcome to The Unmistakable Creative, and we'll go for about an hour. All right, Wendy, welcome to The Unmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Wendy Parr

Yeah.

Wendy Parr

Awesome.

Wendy Parr

I'm so glad to be here.

Srini Rao

It is my pleasure to have you here. So I found out about you, uh, because you've been a listener of the podcast and you wrote in and it's always, uh, one nice to hear when listeners are doing such amazing things that they end up becoming guests, but it's also always surprising because I'm always blown away by the level of sort of talent and, um, you know, interesting skill that is out there in our community. I think that, you know, together, the group of podcast listeners here could potentially do things that, uh, could change the world and solve problems

to solve in a matter of weeks if we all did it together.

Wendy Parr

I love that.

Srini Rao

So I wanted to start by asking you, yeah, well, we're working on that. So I wanted to start by asking you, what is one of the most important things that you learned from one or both of your parents that have influenced and shaped who you've become and what you've done with your life?

Wendy Parr

Sounds like you gotta bring people together.

Wendy Parr

Oh wow.

Wendy Parr

Oh my goodness, that is a big question. And I would say I've learned, I learned by example of, you know, what works and what doesn't, right? So, 100% take risks and be a little lawless. You know, don't follow all the rules. My mom definitely does not follow all the rules and I can see it in my brothers and I as well. And you know, as long as I'm not hurting anybody, it's cool, please don't. Like, you know.

find your own path, do your thing, take risks. One of the things she's so talented at is interior design and landscaping. And I would see her, and I see it in myself. I see it in my clothing, I see it in my style choices. And I know that from the time I was a kid, I would wear clothes and she's like, what are you doing? Or I remember when I was eight and being insulted for wearing hot pink and red. But when I was 23 and I wore it, and...

Andre Leon Talley saw me, he looked me up and down and smiled, and two weeks later the colors of the season were hot pink and red. So eight-year-old me had fashion style and taste, even if the world didn't like it. Yeah, so I saw that with her design. I would watch her do something for somebody, and every design she did was their style, not hers. She would do an interior for them that wasn't... She wouldn't do it for herself, but she...

She was doing it for their taste, but what was always there was her risks. Was her putting things together that other people would be like, wow, that's bold. Or, you know, she was definitely not, you know, beige. And I've had people say to me, oh, Wendy, only you could pull that off, like whatever I'm wearing, you know? And it is that, it's that risk taking. It's that, why not put patterns together? Why not do, you know, why not do whatever the thing is your heart is pushing you to do? Break the rules.

Srini Rao

where you're dead.

Srini Rao

What about your dad?

Wendy Parr

That's a good one too. I definitely got the work hard side on his side. I mean, my mom has energy for days, so there's a difference there. I would say if anything, I would learn to like enjoy life more. I think he had, I get a little bit of the worry side, I think from him. And I practice like, and I want to worry less and enjoy more. So I practice.

You know, can I respond with more joy? Can I respond with more joy? Can I respond with more ease?

Yeah.

Srini Rao

Yeah.

So I think that what struck me in particular about the advice you got from your mom is that's not Conventional advice from a parent to a kid is to take risks and be a little lawless and I know what you mean by lawless Not you know breaking the law per se But I think that one of the things that strikes me is as interesting about humans in general is that as we get older our tolerance for risk declines and of course There's reasonable justifications for that because as you know have kids have families you have

Wendy Parr

Yeah.

Srini Rao

responsibilities where the consequences of the risks become much bigger if you know things blow up in your face and at the same time I think that the there's this distinction that I see between Perceived risk and real risk and I wonder why you think that one we lose that capacity for risk But then we start to turn perceived risks into real ones

Wendy Parr

Mm-hmm.

Wendy Parr

Mm-hmm.

Wendy Parr

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a biology to our fear, right? Like fear saves us and it's survival. So I think again, we have to practice leaning, being aware of our fears, but leaning away from them and towards our desires or towards our passions or towards those risks. And as I've heard it said, she certainly didn't tell me to be...

to take risks, although maybe she did, but she showed me, right? When I was a kid, she'd take me out of school and say, hey, come with me for the day. We're going to San Francisco. I'm gonna go shopping for a client. So as long as I did well in school and I was advancing there, it was totally cool to cut school. So I did, I did a lot of that. So I think there was that balance of like, yes, do well, succeed, and that's a risk too, right?

if you're risking something if you don't follow that, that stay in line, so to speak. Yeah, I think, I mean, we know that fear is built in, right? Like fear is built to save our lives in the jungle. And we still have that fear reaction, you know, when you stare at your phone for too long, or just in general, and your computer as well, our body has a fight or flight reaction to it because our eyes are so focused on something small and specific.

So it's actually essential that you get up, move your body and let your eyes go very peripheral, very wide, like taking a walk. It's one of the ways we decompress is because of the way your eyes see the world. And people aren't aware of the fact, that's something I've learned recently, that just looking at your phone puts your nervous system into fight or flight. That's horrible. That's why people are so stressed out. So.

We need to learn some of these things and practice ways to lean away from our fears. And again, I'm just a person who's always followed passions, who I'm very driven by purpose. And I get an idea, I get a vision, I get a creative thing. I'm like, oh God, let's make that happen. We gotta make it happen. And I believe in that. I believe without that, we wouldn't have innovation. And without this...

Wendy Parr

I think to a certain extent when we talk about risks, you know, humans have to feel a bit infallible or immortal or we would never leave the house. So I think that's also part of our design. Like, it's gonna be okay, we can do it, we'll be fine. You would never get in a car, no one would have built an airplane and gotten into it, no one would jump off a cliff, you know? So I think both things are there, we need to learn to harness the power.

of each of them and when is something appropriate? You know?

Srini Rao

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. So what has been the trajectory of your career? And I think a lot of parents, this is something I wonder about when it comes to careers in the arts. My dad talked me out of a career in music, which I haven't mentioned before, and I'm glad he did because I knew that the constraints of being a tour player were pretty significant since you'd have to wait for somebody to die for a job to open up.

Wendy Parr

Yeah.

Srini Rao

But the thing is that sometimes I wonder, particularly when we're talking about risk, how parents can avoid passing on their own sort of limiting beliefs about risk and their own fears to their kids when they encourage them to do things. And then what in the world led you down this trajectory of working with some of these iconic artists that you work with?

Wendy Parr

It's interesting you're talking about parents, because I'm a new parent. So my partner and I just had, well, she had twins. And so we've got, they're almost three months old. So it's interesting you're talking about parents and raising kids.

Srini Rao

Okay.

Wendy Parr

You know, I definitely don't have the answer. How do we not pass things on to our kids? I think inevitably we do. But if we're conscious, we can both work on how we live in the world and walk in the world so that they see that. And then we own up to things when we make an error. You own up to it, you call it out, you say it. And that lets your kids see like, oh, she did that, but actually she, you know.

she's not super thrilled about it and she's making a pivot, you know, things like that. It's very, you know, I do think this has changed a lot, right? If you look at our history, you know, we came from children should be seen and not heard, to today kids are, you know, changing the world and doing apps and, you know, parents often give their kids, I think, too much of the say in something, right? You're...

You're there to guide them. But I think we recognize more and more, I certainly hope so, that as parents, we're here to introduce them to the world and help them be amazing people, help them to be themselves. Whereas I think a generation back and two generations back, people were often saw their kids as an extension of themselves and you're gonna live the life I want you to live. But that's, I mean, they're here to be them. Like I got twins, a boy and a girl, and they were different in utero and they're different.

already. Like you can see differences in the way they behave, the way they respond. He's like this super chill little Buddha dude and she's fiery. And I'm excited just to introduce them to everything I possibly can and see where their interests lie and support their process. I was very fortunate that my parents supported my process of, you know, my passion for music, my love for singing, and they were cool with that. Oh cool, yeah.

dance class, take dance class, voice, I found a voice teacher, I want to take voice, okay, we support that. And so I had, I got to follow my talents and my passions and desires. I'm very grateful for that. It's how I have a career, how I have the career I have. But I think that that's very important, that we're here to support them, give them, you know, strong tools to be good people, have emotional intelligence, you know, think for themselves and...

Wendy Parr

you know, hopefully just be here to be a really strong, safe haven for them. But it's funny, cause yeah, I think if people are like, oh, I don't want you to have a career in music, it's hard. Being a brain surgeon is hard. I think life is gonna be challenging no matter what path you take, 100%. That's like the job of life is to give you challenges, throw them at you and help you and give you a chance to overcome them.

But if you're not into whatever it is you're living and doing, you're going to suffer through your life, you're going to hate it, and it's very hard to be motivated to do something you don't really enjoy doing. You need so much motivation to accomplish anything, you better be loving whatever you're doing. So, and there is a life to be had, success, I mean, what is success? First to find that, is success uber-uber wealthy, or is success being joyful, happy, having good people in your life, being a kind person?

having a positive impact in the world. So you can be, you can have any type of job and have success if you're looking at what your definition of success is. But success to me would be my kid being super happy in the world and doing something good in the world, just contributing in a positive way. So if you're passionate about being a brain surgeon, you will have the stamina to go through that process, which takes what, over a decade, right? So yeah, exactly.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Longer.

Wendy Parr

And yeah, exactly. And apparently horrible, like 72 hours being awake, which I find insane. Like how you're building a good doctor that way, I don't know.

Srini Rao

One of my very good friends from college is a Harvard neurosurgeon. So trust me, I know he's one of the few friends where I'm like, I hear from him once every six months and I don't look down up down on him for it. And he just finished his fellowship this year and we graduated from college in 2000.

Wendy Parr

Oh my-

Wendy Parr

Yeah.

Wendy Parr

Oh my gosh, wow. Yeah, and hey, if, okay. Hey, if somebody's gonna be drilling into somebody's skull, I want them to be really well educated and experienced before they do it, right? But, but my point is, yeah, exactly. But my point is like, you need so much, like what gets you up in the morning? What are you crazy about? Like I have a...

Srini Rao

So he, I think he has seven year residency, if I remember. I mean, he did take a few years off in between, but he literally just finished recently.

Srini Rao

You and me both.

Wendy Parr

a beautiful dance teacher in India. And she was surprised by me when I called her and said, I would like to study Mohiniyattam with you, and I'm from the United States, but I'm here for 10 days. And she thought this was a joke, because I'm in Mumbai for 10 days. Well, there are 10 more days to my stay at that point. But that was, as it turned out, the beginning of three years of living in Mumbai for about half the year.

Meanwhile, she's thinking, you know, I'm a joke. And she said, well, you know, if you want to come on back on Monday, come on Monday. I showed up on Monday and I was there every day after that. And my stay extended, I was there. And when I came back for two months, I was there. I danced with her about six days a week for, you know, three years. And I heard her once, you know, on the phone with a mother calling for her child, wanting to take dance. And she asked her, you know,

Does she have the madness? You know, and I don't know if that was her exact word, but it was like, you know, is she crazy about it? Does she have the madness? And the mom was like, you know what? She's like, does all she think about dance? Does she just want to move? Because if this is what she wants to do, you have to have that much passion for it, right? And I get it. I get why she said that. You know, in the music industry, the business is not the art. And you've got to be crazy about what you're doing. You've got to love it. It takes seven to 10 years to...

to find your voice as an artist. And that is in any type of art, painting, filmmaking. It takes time to find your voice and how do I communicate through the medium that I'm in. When you're singing, there's, okay, there's you and your voice, but then there's the lyrics to your songs and then there's the arrangement and the band to your songs and then there's the production of your song and then there's the stage performance and then there's how do I record on a mic? How do I, like, what's my tone? And it's finding everything that is.

How do I express me in the world? And again, we live in a world that continues to tell everybody too, there's one way to be, this is what's beautiful, this is what's acceptable. And so we have to fight through all of that as well to find our voice, right? So, you know, like I said, I had style when I was a kid. I grew up, I'd get dressed and my mom would say, you're gonna go out in that? I'm like, yes, I am. And thank goodness for myself that I said.

Wendy Parr

Yes, I am, you know, despite you telling me it's awful, despite you not locking my clodhopper shoes, you know? Like, yes, I am wearing this. Yes, I am wearing cutoff t-shirts as a skirt, you know? So, when I'm 13, you know? So, it takes so much time to find your voice, to find the opportunities to play live, to, you know, it's just anything you do takes that...

just incredible dedication. So I truly believe you gotta wake up loving what you do and then it doesn't, we've heard it said, when you love what you do, doesn't feel like work. And it's true. And there are days it will, because if you're a performing artist, a lot of your time is spent networking and doing press. And right now it's doing social media, which is the bane of many artists existence, because we're not designed to make, A, make content all the time. Like that's just.

We're not output machines. We need input days, we need rest days, we need snowboarding days. We need, you know, just to be outputting all the time is not cool. Also, what you're outputting. You know, a musician wants to make music. They, what are they doing making up skits and, and it's, and you know, some of the platforms are really designed to follow trends. Artists are designed to be trendsetters. Again, break the rules, find your voice. You are the trendsetter.

So if you're looking at a platform that's about get on the trend so that you can be found, that is counterproductive to being an artist.

Srini Rao

I, well, I couldn't agree more. I always say you want to start trends and I'll follow them. Uh, so I couldn't help, but, uh, notice, and I didn't want to let this go. You mentioned that you have a same sex partner and I wondered about what the experience of coming out to your parents was like, um, and then also how it changes the dynamics of the rest of your life, the things that all of us do, like raising a family, having kids, how is that different than, um, you know, if you're in a relationship that's

Wendy Parr

Yes.

Wendy Parr

Yes.

Srini Rao

with a same-sex partner.

Wendy Parr

Oh my gosh, that's such a huge question. And I don't know that I would have all the answers as I'm not in a heterosexual relationship, right? So I can compare it to things I see, right?

Srini Rao

Yeah, so I guess really what I want to understand is what our misperceptions are that we see based on media and culture. You know, how do we, but yeah, I'd like to hear about the experience of coming out to your parents.

Wendy Parr

Oh.

Uh huh.

Wendy Parr

That's very interesting. Yeah, that's, hmm. There's so much, like I've learned so much in the last few years and have new understanding of my own experiences in the world. Like things that I didn't necessarily realize or attribute to the factors that really made them what they were until more recently. And I'm going, oh, that's what that was, you know? Oh, oh, that's, one of my colleagues. So I was on a...

I was a founder of an organization, we train teachers around the world, and I was the only female of this, I think there were seven of us that founded it, and I was the youngest and the only female, and I had the longest experience with our mentor that we were developing this program for. So I was often the only voice of dissent.

I was often the only person who would speak up and say, you know, here's my conflict with that, or this is why I don't agree with that choice. Here's how I think it could be, we would serve the teachers better, you know. And I find that interesting that, I mean, number one, I was often, and being a female in the music industry, and I think actually most industries, right? There's many times where we are the only female in the room, you know. And this is not...

because the world is horrible, this is because of history. Women have not been in the workforce as long, there's still many firsts happening, right? And then add a minority to that, and it's the first black woman doing this ever. That's because of our history, right? And give us 10, 20 more years and it won't be any firsts anymore, it will just be everybody doing everything. But we need time to get there. So I don't say that with anger, it's just going to be factual, right?

Wendy Parr

But I was just accustomed to being the only female in the room for a long time. But later I realized, oh yeah, my sort of, my need to interrupt, my need to like sort of be strong and maybe even sometimes come off angry had to do with the fact that I was the only female in the room. And so more from, to get my voice to be heard, I had to.

speak up and I had to speak up strongly and I had to repeat myself. And maybe at the time I didn't notice it, but in hindsight and reflection I was able to. So in that case, I think that was sometimes harder. For sure, I think that there are times when because I'm not in the boys club, there were things or opportunities that didn't come to me. Because

I wasn't hanging with the guys. Or maybe they couldn't see me as the person to invite to hang with the guys. So I think that also happened in terms of business because I would see male colleagues have access to things that I didn't. And I'm still very, I'm very grateful I have a successful career. I'm still working on amazing things I'm so proud of. But for sure I saw that. I once had, I once had

potentially I was gonna go on tour with an artist and they were reluctant because I'm a female and they knew that the male artist would sexually harass women. And so they were reluctant. I was like, first of all, they're not gonna pull that with me. I'm not here for that. I'm here to support them, like help their career, their performance. Like, I don't play with that. So you want me to sign something, it's fine. They're not gonna pull that with me. Like, you don't look at me and say, oh, let me try that. But.

I didn't go on tour with that artist, right? And again, fine. Like would I have enjoyed that experience? It was questionable. So there's that kind of stuff. In terms of partnership, I am so, so grateful and people who know me and friends and clients and colleagues who have known me for so long, they all say the same thing. They've never seen you happier, Wendy, and that's...

Wendy Parr

I am experiencing so many firsts in my life. Being in a relationship with someone who is really incredible and mature, and it's an adult, conscious relationship. We both say, oh, wish we met you 10 years ago, but neither of us would have been the same person 10 years ago. We wouldn't have this relationship. So every day is a first in terms of my experience with her and then now with kids. I mean, every day watching the kid.

just be in awe of the world, notice something new, and watching their cognitive skills kick in, and it's really amazing. And yeah, how is it different? I mean, it's definitely different. But for so far and for the most part, again, I have clients right now who are having babies at the same time, and a colleague just did, and we're texting, and...

this music manager, we just started working together with an artist, so we just started to know each other. I haven't even met them in person yet. But here we are texting because he just had a baby and we're chatting about how are you doing and relating to things and that's another whole layer of beautiful connection. And it's a very honest one. It's a very human one, not honest. It's such a human and vulnerable one because here we are talking about

how being a parent is everything all at once. It's fragility, it's vulnerability, it's awe-inspiring. It's more love than you've... I mean, when the babies were born and I first saw them, I was hit by a wave of love that I've never experienced. And it was just, I just cried on, like it was so powerful and aweing. And so to connect with a manager, and here we are just texting about...

Isn't it just everything? And so we're relating on such a human level and that's a beautiful way to connect to people.

Wendy Parr

Meanwhile, it's also COVID, so we have met very few parents.

Srini Rao

as part.

Srini Rao

As far as coming out to family members, how do you approach that conversation? Because I've heard multiple versions of this, where one is, I am completely estranged from my parents. I remember Steve Goldstein, who we had here, who wrote this amazing book about the power of what makes people like you from Hollywood to Wall Street. He ended up having an estranged relationship. But then on the flip side of that, I've had people like Jennifer Brown who said that

Wendy Parr

Ah, yes, you asked me, I'm sorry.

Wendy Parr

Mmm.

Srini Rao

It wasn't easy. Nothing was easy, but it didn't destroy the relationship that she had with her family.

Wendy Parr

Hmm

Wendy Parr

Sorry, you did ask me that question and I didn't answer so sorry for that. Um, so, it's such a big question and it definitely has to do with coming out, but it also has to do with just my family was already, or in its own totality, a very challenging experience. My family was very like broken from the start. It was very...

volatile. So there's all of that in addition to my being queer. I got kicked out of my house. I was estranged. Well, it was, how do I say estranged? I didn't let my mom stop talking to me is pretty much how it worked, but it was just a struggle for a long, long time. And then...

Wendy Parr

There were, like, she wouldn't call me, because I lived with my partner at the time, so she wouldn't call my house. And my mom would say, that's not true, I did. She didn't. And then, but again, some of this has to do with my being queer and some of it doesn't. Because we just have, our family has its own challenging dynamics, and I think my family has struggled to just be a family and be connected in general.

But yes, my being queer was like a line in the sand that my mom was like drawing. Like, you know, I said I'm gay and she said, how could you do this to me? So unfortunately it was for her, I think she saw it as a poor reflection on herself or something. It was, I think it was not the vision she saw of me.

And that was the problem. If I had said I'm blue, if I had said I'm... Actually, if I had said I wanna go be a mathematician instead of a singer, she probably would have been like, what, you can't do that. I want you to be a singer. So it's just sort of one of the layers. And I remember when I was a kid in our house, there was a big staircase and every person who walked in would say, oh, I could just see Wendy coming down in her wedding gown down the staircase. And every time they do it, I'd wanna throw up.

So I think that was the bigger part of it. My stepfather, he was fine with it. He said, like what we would have said about being an artist, he just said, oh, I just don't want your life to be hard. And I was like, dad, life's hard anyway, but if I'm happy loving the person I love, then I'm gonna be happy. Trying to deny that, fight that, ignore that would be worse. And...

So I think, and so, and he was, he was, I think he was more okay with it for sure, but he, he was a teammate with my mom. So it was a very hard line in the sand. And, you know, it's a phase, they sent me to therapy to get straight. That was horrible.

Srini Rao

I've heard about this. I've heard there's like this entire movement of, I don't remember what it was called. Like I remember there's a documentary about this on Netflix.

Wendy Parr

Mm-hmm. Yeah, thankfully my version was more mild. It was just a therapist in Los Angeles. And after speaking with them for some time, they brought my parents back for a session. And the therapist said, "'I think Wendy doesn't know if she's gay.'" And I was like, have you been listening to me?

So I was like, are you just doing this to like get paid some more? Or I think to me that was crazy. I'm like, you are absolutely crazy and clearly not a healer. Like you're not here to help anybody. Um, so it was, it was definitely hard. It was definitely rough. Um, it also, you know, for example, you know, being cut off, I've been taking care of myself since I'm, well, I mean, since I'm a kid, I've looked after myself a lot, but since I'm a teenager, I got kicked out of the house.

I've been financially taking care of myself. And there was obviously a struggle. Like there was a time when, you know, I went to the market and we bought one tomato, one onion, a bag of rice. We bought things to cook one meal, you know, not stock the fridge. And, but it was also the most independent time of my life. It was also me making every choice for myself. And...

And so I learned so much and I gained so much and I got a lot of gratitude during that time and understanding and courage for myself. Every choice I got to make was not dictated by anyone else and that was autonomy. So I started to learn that. And for everything, I do believe everything in life. The traumas I've experienced, the pains I've experienced, I can see the...

I'll say the benefits of them as well. You know, I went to, I forget the count, but I think I went to 11 schools between kindergarten and college. I think it was 11. Which is a lot of instability, which is a lot of change, but it also means I literally walk up to strangers and can talk to them and say hi. I can be in a room of people I don't know and make a friend. And I in fact have friends that I met. I have a friend in New York that we met.

Wendy Parr

at the Basquiat Art Show. I just, I loved her hat, her jacket, walked up and said, you are super cool, I love your style. We started talking and we consistently, you know, we're friends, we have dinner every time I'm in New York, which I used to live there. We're in touch, you know, I'm right now developing a TV show with a guy that I met walking down the street in Los Angeles, same thing, I stopped him. Caroline, my...

We were walking and I said, hold on a second. She said, you're going to go talk to that stranger, aren't you? I said, I am, one second. And I went, I was like, I love your pants. I want your outfit. Where, who are you? Like, and we just started chatting and his name's Nick. And we had tea like a week or two later and our tea turned into this incredible three hour conversation. And in it, he very, you know, one sentence in there was, oh yeah, I was working on a TV show, but I kind of put it aside. And.

And I said, what's the show? And he described it to me. I said, that show has to happen. That's really special. Let me make a couple calls. And now Nick, my friend Medford, and his friend is showrunner. We've now been developing the show that we're about to pitch. That comes from...

My, that comes from, okay, I'm sure it's a mix of things, but some of it is who I am as a person. Some of it is like family trait. I, like some of my mom's closest friends, she met sitting at a restaurant. And some of it is because I went to so many different schools and some of it because of my, like I was put on a plane when I was five years old to go see my grandparents. And so I was flying by myself with like, you know, a stewardess kind of looking out for me kind of thing. But it was before you had.

It was literally like a five years old sitting in the, like, you have to sit in the front so we can keep an eye on you kind of thing. It was the 70s. They were like, we didn't have seat belts in the 70s. And that's crazy. Like I look at my kids, I looked at my niece when she was five and I thought of half the things that I had done when I was five years old. I'm like, are you nuts? I wouldn't put her on a plane by herself.

Srini Rao

Well, I mean, I think that's all of us, right? Like half the things I think that my parents let me get away with when I was a kid. I'm like, no kid could do any of that now.

Wendy Parr

shi i

Wendy Parr

Totally! She was six years old and I was like, I used to ride my bike across town when I was six years old to go play with my cousins. That's crazy! That being said, I've traveled around the world by myself and I love it. And again, I think part of that is how I came into the world and part of that is my experiences in the world. So I'm very grateful and like I said, I strive to be kind. I certainly, I can have a short temper or I can...

I can lose my shit too fast, which I don't enjoy. Like I don't enjoy the experience of that. That also comes from like a childhood of the sky is falling. And so when something small happens, I will feel like, oh my God, the sky is falling. And it takes adult me a second to be like, it's not, it's okay, it's actually probably gonna be better. Just let's hold on. So I would like to adjust, you know, those knee jerk responses so that my life experience is better, but it's, and it's a practice. And there's just this combination of like,

who you are as a person. And again, going back to artistry, I really believe finding your voice as a person is knowing yourself as a person. And it's peeling away the layers of, what have I been told I'm supposed to be? What does the world tell me I have to be? What are some of the things that shape me? And so my choices are reactionary and not conscious. So I think a lot of it is peeling away, peeling away, peeling away to reveal that kid that if you look at yourself in a photo of when you were.

two and three and four and five and six, that spirit is you. So how do we let that spirit shine with the maturity and consciousness of an adult and the wisdom and the healed adult?

Srini Rao

Speaking of that spirit...

Yeah, well, speaking of that spirit, you have, you know, one worked with some iconic artists and I just caught something in your bio that literally put it, your smile on my face that I want to come back to. I'll mention it specifically in a second here, but you worked with people like Sara Bareilles. So in your own career, first, you know, what have been sort of the dips and the low points where, you know, things didn't look great?

Srini Rao

finding your voice as an artist, how do you stay motivated to stay the course?

Wendy Parr

Hmm. So I started as an artist. I started working when I was eight as a performer, actor, voiceover, singer. I was doing plays in musical theater in Los Angeles. I was doing some television. And I was pursuing being an artist and a recording artist. I started writing songs and my first demo, which is a real record, because there was no such thing as a studio in your house back then.

So I would record after one in the morning because the prices of the studio dropped. So I used to sing one in the morning and try to do it in three takes because I'm paying by the hour here and I'm 14 years old. So I was pursuing being an artist. My first demo was Motown was super interested in it, but at that time I was 15 and there was no such thing as YouTube and teenage artists.

The Jackson 5 had kind of been the last version of that, right? And so that was quite a long time before. And I was just a few years before Tiffany and Debbie Gibson when someone was like, hey, I think we could do something here with a teenager. Right? So I was 15 and they're like, what do we do with the white girl who sounds so soulful and mature? We don't know how to market this. And when I was 19, 19 about 20, my vocal coach,

who's a very famous vocal coach, invited me to teach in his studio. And I thought, or I said, teach, I don't know how to teach this. And he said, sure you do. You know how I helped your voice. You can help others. And while you're building your career and developing yourself, you can have a career as a coach and you can help other people. I was like, okay, I'll give that a shot. And who knew, 20 plus years later, that I would absolutely love it. I love empowering other people. I love...

helping them soar and shine. I am still a songwriter and I write for artists and with artists. I've, you know, as most people in any art, my career has so many different curves and twists and turns. And I've been a music supervisor on a film where we wrote all the original music and I produced that with my co-producer. I've gotten to tour the world as a coach. It's...

Wendy Parr

It's incredible. There's so many things. And my voice as both an artist, my voice as a coach was found again. My process of being an artist led me to my experiences and the pitfalls that I experienced, I wanted to help other artists with. For me, and then training teachers, I spent 10 years training teachers. And similarly, like what I teach teachers, I find they fall into the same pitfall, which is...

And speaking of Sara Bareilles, she gave me a little piece of my philosophy that while I was learning my own philosophy, right? Like I was finding my voice as a coach. I remember I was having this session with her and I said, there's a piece of this philosophy I haven't found yet. I haven't discovered it yet. And she actually gave it to me that day, that moment. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's the piece that I've been missing. Thank you. And what it was. So as an artist, I came up...

in like R&B. R&B is not my genre, it's not my thing, but the first 20 years of my life, I was singing R&B and I would go to church and sing and I'm very soulful, but I'm not an R&B singer. But I came through that influence to that to find my way, right? And then I started studying and add my personality to the cues that I was getting and to what many of us fall into is

Srini Rao

Thanks for watching!

Yeah.

Wendy Parr

I started to lose my love for singing and music. I started hating singing, I started hating music. My voice did not sound good. I was like, I have a beautiful voice, how come I sound terrible? And what I discovered was I was caught up in all the things that I was being told I'm supposed to sound like, be like, this is what a good voice is, this is how you have to sing, this is the right way to sing. And again, if you're an artist, that is not lawless, right? There's no right way to sing if you're an artist. There's your way to sing.

technical ways that will help you sing easier, longer, last on tour. And actually with good technique, you can expand your style, but we don't want to lose style for right singing. You know, if you're a fantastic technician, you will be boring AF, right? Or you just won't be an artist. You'll be a, you could be a very good technician and they're definitely careers for that and places for that. But you can have three raspy notes to your name, but if you make the audience cry.

you're going to have success. Because that's the role of the artist. The artist, no matter what art and discipline you're in, paint, you know, I've stood in front of three paintings in my life and cried.

Klimt, Kandinsky, Helga von, I'm gonna mess up her last name. She actually predates Kandinsky when she was discovered recently, because when she died, she said she didn't want her work shown for a hundred years, because the world wasn't ready for it. Helga von, it's close to, I have to look it up, because I can't remember now, but it was at the Guggenheim, and it's spectacular.

So an artist's job is to express authentically to move the audience. We are here to serve the audience and not in a way to say to please them, but to actually move them. I'm gonna share my experience with you so that you can experience it and have an emotional experience. And there's no right way to do that.

Srini Rao

Yeah. Well, it's yeah. Well, it's funny you say that because I remember, you know, when we did this episode about 36 questions to fall in love with anyone and our sound engineer was like, OK, great. You got the story laid out. What do you want me to do? And I said, well, move the audience to tears. I don't know what else to tell you. And that's why I love working with him, because I can give him such a vague instruction and he can take that and he can make magic. So. Yeah.

Wendy Parr

Yes.

Wendy Parr

That's phenomenal. So the part about Sarah, just to give you that, the first session I have with every artist I work with is the foundation of being an artist. And it's really helping artists get back to why do I do what I do and what's getting in my way. And like really killing that perfectionist. We all have it. It's again, the world shows it to us, gives it to us. We all have a thousand things that people have told us were supposed to be meant to be, should be.

And eventually we turn that into our own voice and we think that it's us speaking to ourselves. Oh, I should do that, I should do that. And in my session with Sarah, we were talking and going through this process of just reconnecting to what you love about music and looking at the fears and things getting in the way and talking about the audience, right? And what is our role with the audience? And she actually gave it to me because I asked her like, well, what do you do? Like, how do you move the audience? How do you connect with them? And I go through this process with people so that they can...

remember and or even just get conscious. Cause some artists will say, oh, I've never even thought about this, right? But how do you move your audience? And she said it, she said, I invite them in. And I was like, that's it. That was the sliver that I hadn't found yet. And that is that, you know, cause the artist's job is not to project to the audience. It's not your job to like give and give and give yourself away. Cause you can't, I can't give you my feelings and my emotions, but I can be vulnerable.

I can invite you into my life and experience. This podcast, you're asking questions. I can choose to be vulnerable or not. I can open up and let you in, and as a result, you can have a moving and emotional experience because I'm feeling my emotions. I'm allowing myself to connect to this, to where that question takes me. And then I get to share that with you.

Srini Rao

Wow, amazing. So I just caught this in your bio. You wrote Dreams on Fire for Slumdog? Okay, so, well, then you know, I'm sure having listened to the show how many times I have mentioned A.R. Rahman as probably one of my favorite artists. I'm guessing you know who that is.

Wendy Parr

I did. I wrote the lyrics.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, I've written with AR a number of times. He's spectacular. Oh! Yeah.

Srini Rao

Okay, it's funny because he's my dream podcast guest. He's my definition of unmistakable. Because I think what strikes me so much about his music, his biographer wrote this amazing book called Notes on a Dream. And he said, you know, ARR is the definition of the phrase music has no language. And it's so true because I don't understand a word of any of the lyrics because I don't speak Hindi. But so I wonder having worked with somebody like ARR,

Wendy Parr

Oh yeah.

Wendy Parr

Mm-hmm. Or Tamil.

Srini Rao

Work with somebody like Sara Bareilles. We see the end product of their work, right? We get to hear the music We get to see the live shows we get to see the beautiful movies. What don't we see about the actual work that goes in it? What's the part that people miss about this like the reality versus the fantasy?

Wendy Parr

Mm.

Wendy Parr

Oh gosh. Well, every song that you ever write has your whole life in it. So maybe I'm writing a song about a particular experience or relationship or anything, but all of me is in there. My whole history is in there. There'll be a line or there'll be an emotion or there'll be a point of view that is not from, let's say I'm writing about a specific relationship, but it could be about a relationship I had.

with a friend 10 years ago, but that plays its way into the song. So I think that, you know, when somebody, like when we talk about the blood, sweat and tears of something, it's like, we really do pour all ourselves into something. When someone makes their first record, their entire life led up to that first record. And then they make their second record, they usually have about a year to do it if. So that's why the sophomore, there's often called the sophomore's thump, it's like.

They had years to develop that first one and pick all the songs and this and that. And then that second one is like under pressure.

Srini Rao

I can relate. The same thing with writing a book. Like the first one was really easy, and the second one was a pain in the ass.

Wendy Parr

Yeah.

Wendy Parr

Yeah, yeah, and part of it is just like you're, it's a sort of this condensed moment, right? And I think, I think sometimes, I mean, stage is a place to be so free and bold and a place to be that superhero. But you know, every artist is a human. And when the, when the, we walk off stage, when someone's on tour, you know, being on tour is very lonely. It's kind of, it's Groundhog Day.

Right? You go from show to show to show, and you're doing the same show each night for a different audience in a different city, but in many ways it's the same day over and over again. And then, but it's with different people and in a different town, and you come off of a show and you're in a bus or you're in a hotel room and you're alone. You have your bandmates and such, right? And hopefully, I mean, the whole point of that is to pick a great crew of people that you love being around. That's essential. You know, being a good hang is so important.

being a good hang is probably more important than the ability of your vocals or whatever. There's a lot of great guitar players, but are you the guy that people want on the bus? Are you the woman guy, any gender, that people wanna hang out with? That is so important. Are you cool to be around? And that doesn't mean you have to be cool, it just means are you cool to be around? So I think the humanity of it is often...

not recognize that person is a human, that they have their insecurities, that as we are striving to express ourselves, that the artist is, and you mentioned like, how are you patient? I mean, the whole process, there isn't a destination of, oh, I found my voice and I'm done even, right? So if you're having a lifelong career, being a creative, you're evolving as a person. So your voice is always also evolving. Like, oh, you're married, you had kids, you had a life experience.

the way you want to say the next thing is going to be different. Oh, I traveled to Turkey and I found this influence of music that I love. I want to incorporate that. So it's not that you find your voice and you're done. It's that we get better and better at expressing ourselves and then who we are continues to evolve hopefully. If not, you're in trouble. And so therefore, so does your art. So I think the humanity can be forgotten that this is a person and there's a person doing their job.

Wendy Parr

and the job also has its ups and downs. The job has its struggles. The job has its least favorite parts. The other thing I think that is so important, and I do want to speak towards A.R. Riman because he's a remarkable person and I love working with him. I want to speak to that a little bit. But one thing I would love to, like I think that the audience needs to be educated again, and that is that it's the artist's job to...

move the audience, to take them on a ride. And what we often forget, I think the audience starts to worship the artist and, oh my God, you're amazing, thank you, oh! You know, and the audience starts to really worship the artist. And what's important to realize is that artist isn't meant to be your boyfriend or your girlfriend, or they aren't responsible for your experience. Yes, we are.

They're giving it to you, right? They're creating this opportunity for you to have, be vulnerable and feel. But then the artist needs to recognize and say, oh my gosh, I'm having all these feelings. Oh my gosh, I'm being vulnerable. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. This is me. This is, I have the power to do this. And I can turn to that artist and say, thank you. Thank you for giving me this experience. It's fabulous. I love you for that. But we own our experience and not credit the artist with.

Oh, without you, I can't have this experience. And that's where I think we get, you know, the sort of wild fan part, or even sometimes like the disrespect. Give me more, give me more. I need you to have this. And you don't. Like, you're having an emotional experience. Own it.

Enjoy it. Know that you can have that in so many different ways and with so many different catalysts for it. If that makes sense. Like I think the celebrity worship is not where it's at, but to be empowered by the experience.

Wendy Parr

Yeah. But back to A.R. I mean, he's an incredible musician, incredible art composer. Things that I, we've written a number of songs together and I, part of my journey of India is like really connecting with a few people that are to me my soul family and just drew me to India. Shabana Azmi was the catalyst for that. And...

when I heard AR's music, it was the catalyst for me understanding. I made a record that's unfinished. It's a Western record with Indian rhythms and instruments and sounds. And it was just my total draw to, oh, this record, this is what I've been looking for. And I got drawn to India. And AR, talk about full circle conversation here. When I met him, I told him, I said, I actually handed it to him. I said, this is an album I'm working on. These are like, this is the

you know, studio stuff I'm working on right now. And I really believe you're meant to put your hands on this. I would love to work with you. And I'll be in India next month." And he said, okay, cool. And a couple of people introduced me to him to say, you know, you should meet Wendy. And so there was like a little bit of that respect, but mostly A.R. is very open. He loves finding new talent. He loves working with people outside in different musical genres. So his openness...

is such a, that's the beauty right there. That's the starting point. And then I reached out, I reached out and he responded directly and said, here's my number, call me when you're in Mumbai. And cut forward, cut forward, cut forward a few times because he was interested in having me teach at his conservatory for voice. I did a workshop for some teachers there. But moving forward.

We were sitting in his studio and he asked me, this is after we'd been working for a while, and I think he asked me, like, how did you find me? Or how did this, no, he asked, like, how did you get to India? Like, how did this happen? It's quite a long, phenomenal story, and every step of it is magic. Every step of it is truly, like, really me following my intuition, and I just felt like I got held by the hand over and over. Said, here we go, ready for this next adventure? Here we go.

Wendy Parr 

But one of the things was, I told him, I said, this voice in my head said, remember that movie you watched about seven years ago? Watch it again. And I said, and I couldn't stop watching it. I just was mesmerized by it. And it got me to then watch all these other movies that Shabana Azmi was in. It got me to listen. The third movie I watched was Morning Raga, which is where I heard Carnatic music. And a week later, I was sitting in Queens with someone and studying Carnatic.

which is South Indian classical music. And then in Mumbai, I was introduced to my dance teacher and I was learning Mohiniyattam, which is also South Indian classical. So, but I studied Bharatanatyam first for like, I didn't even study it. I had a couple lessons with one of the most renowned dancers of Southern India. I saw her in the movie with Raj Kapoor.

and I go into my Googling, you know, rabbit hole and I come to find out she has a dance studio in New Jersey and I call and she's in, I wanna remember names and as soon as I want names, they elude my brain. So this was Padmini. She was the Tagalore sisters. So she was in this film with Raj Kapoor from the 30s, or four, no, not the 30s, sorry. It's a black and white film but I think it's from the late 50s.

I go to New Jersey and I'm taking my very first Indian classical dance class with like, you know, the iconic dancer of India. And then I got led to my teacher to teach, to study the Mohiniyattam, which is kind of the sister with Carnatic. So sorry, back to AR. So I got led step by step by step. I met Shabana G in New York with Javed Sab.

One of the first songs I learned, I thought it was in Hindi but it's in Urdu, was a song that he wrote with A.R. from a film. I learned it from the film. I loved this song, so I learned it. I ended up recording it. And so A.R. says to me, so what's the first film? Well, the first film that sent all of this was called Fire. And it was an indie film, not a Bollywood film. One of a trilogy. And in it, the story is...

Wendy Parr

of two women who are sister-in-laws and they fall in love with each other. So it's a lesbian themed film. Shabana Azmi is the lead in it. I want to say it's a yes, yes. And AR says to me, oh yes, that's script. And this is again a quality about him I absolutely love. So he's a Sufi.

Srini Rao 

Mira Nair made that, didn't she? Yeah.

Wendy Parr 

a very, you know, practicing devout Sufi, and this film has a lesbian love story. And he said, yeah, I got the script and I thought, oh, I can't do this movie. He said, and then I thought about it and said, no, I should do this movie. Like.

And again, I'm not gonna remember our exact conversation. I shouldn't try to quote him, put words in his mouth, but basically what he said was, if I can't use my music and show love in the world and be loving to all people in the world, right? It made him, he thought twice about it. He opened his heart to it. He embraced it. And that says so much about who he is as a person.

And one of the things I thought of in life with this, with making music, with my being queer, with my, I mean, there were opportunities, 100% I was like almost sexually assaulted more than once. And actually I was definitely inappropriately, I was behaved with inappropriately many times in my life, especially like as a 17 year old. I mean, I could tell you things that happened, music producer calling me at one in the morning and I walked out of a hotel room.

Thank God I was able to walk out of the hotel room. When I was there just going, I wanna make music, you know, I'm talented, like isn't that what it's about? And when I worked with AR and I thought, maybe some things are gonna take me longer. Maybe some things I'll never experience, but maybe some things are gonna take me longer because of who I am, because of my own path, my integrity, choices I will and won't make. But this is the kind of person that

I am fortunate and I get to work with a really incredibly talented, open-hearted, thoughtful, conscious, philosophical person. This is who I get to work with because I can't do the other.

Srini Rao 

Yeah, so it's funny, I pulled up a quote from his biographer, Krishnath Rolok, who said, most people who interact with the man say he has an amazing ability to listen and absorb information. He constantly asks himself, how can he do things better, do things differently? And when he talks about the films he wants to make, one thing that quickly becomes apparent is that he wants to make movies unlike anything made in India before. And that's so true to me, because like I said,

Wendy Parr 

Mmm.

Srini Rao 

track only for the soundtrack and the funny thing is I feel like when I listen to a movie where the music is done by A.R. Rahman I can basically listen to him like there's only one person who could have done that it's A.R. Rahman like it's such a distinctive sound. You probably saw it he did this documentary on Netflix where he goes around India working you know with all these different artists you know who are nobodies in comparison to him but he goes to every single one

Wendy Parr (

Yeah.

Yes.

Wendy Parr

Mm-hmm.

Srini Rao 

well-known as he is that really struck me and I think that This is actually a nice place to bring us sort of full circle, you know to what we were talking about I think before we hit record here The line that struck me most in fact, I ended up writing a blog post about this from that movie And it was really I think I needed to hear that I was right after I finished writing audience of one he says that when you expect nothing everything comes to you and That is such a hard thing for artists who are so

Wendy Parr

'Mmm, wow.

Srini Rao 

passionate about their work to comprehend and to grasp and to embrace.

Wendy Parr 

I think that's a hard human thing. One correction I wanna make, Fire was by Deepa Mehta. The trilogy is Water, Fire and Earth. Yeah, yeah. I said, as soon as I want a name, absolutely my brain like throws a curtain over it. So, back here. I think that, yeah, this is a struggle, right? What are, what are, what?

Srini Rao

Oh, okay.

Srini Rao 

Okay, gotcha.

Wendy Parr 

are our expectations. They are often our desires, right? Our desire to reach a lot of people, to touch a lot of people. So I think our expectations are often sort of the outcome we want to happen, right? And they're not bad. Gosh, without them, I don't think we'd be motivated. But absolutely. Can we shift our expectation to be something that will lead us to a more successful

What is my expectation to go and connect with this person? What is my expectation to show up and give my talents and my heart to the moment? If we align ourselves with what we can control and not what we want, and if we can bring ourselves to the moment with that kind of openness and willingness, then yes, I think absolutely magic does happen. And...

what you described that he meets people on such an open human level that you are gonna get magic and then that other person's gonna open up so much. And I do think that great artists and...

Wendy Parr 

I think that many, many successful artists, I'd like more of them to be, but I think that many successful creatives are that way. I mean, we know what we came through. We know what our own struggle is like. And you know that some corner of the earth, someone who has no TV and is playing the guitar is doing things that you've never seen someone do before. And if you just got a chance to hear them, you'd be.

wowed. You know, what we get exposed to in the world and what exists in the world is very different. There are a lot of incredible singers, a lot. I mean the human body is designed to sing. We are all born to sing. There are a lot of great singers. Everyone isn't born to be the artist, the messenger. Everyone doesn't want to be on stage. So there's so like but somebody...

with a beautiful voice, sharing that with their family, themselves, their neighbors. There's so much to contribute to the world when we open our hearts. So I think that, yeah, that's just beautiful. That's beautiful.

Srini Rao 

Wow, well, I have two final questions for you. I love the fact that you have spent so much time in India, particularly as a creative and coming from a culture where...

The funny thing is that we celebrate creativity, we celebrate artists, and paradoxically, we also discourage people from pursuing the arts as a career. I even wrote jokingly in an audience of one that I think a lot of Indian people think that the books they read and the music they hear all falls from the sky. I'm like, no, somebody is out there doing this and making all this stuff, and they have chosen to risk security, their own security for your enjoyment and your entertainment. And so I wonder,

Wendy Parr 

Totally!

Wendy Parr 

Yes!

Wendy Parr (01:10:12.366)

Yeah.

Srini Rao

what you saw in terms of cultural dynamics there in terms of artists, particularly with younger artists, because I think that was the thing that also I just absolutely loved when I heard about ARS Conservatory. I thought, yes, this is a guy who is encouraging Indians. This is why I want to have a conversation with him so badly, because I'm just like, there's so much here that I want to explore. But

There's something just beautiful about that, and yet there's this tension of our cultural narrative of go become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. And I wonder what you saw in terms of that dynamic.

Wendy Parr (01:10:46.147)

Totally.

Wendy Parr (01:10:51.498)

Yeah, so interesting. That's exactly what I saw. I saw a culture that music, dance is a part of life. And that is so beautiful, you know, that in some ways it's less precious. Oh, this concert, this experience, like we'll go on for 24 hours. So we'll just go in and out to hear the music and go get food and the kids won't sleep and then we'll wake up and then we'll listen to music again. Like the fact that music and dance is a part of everyone's life.

makes for a better culture. I mean, it makes for a better life. Again, song, dance, they're both healing. You only need your body to make it happen. They're incredibly healing experiences, transformative experiences. So I love that it's part of culture. I think again, that conflict of, yes, it's a part of our life, but it's not your career. That just goes back to what we were talking about earlier, where parents think, oh, this is where security is and.

All parents want to know that their kids will be okay without them. I think that's really where that comes from. Like, I want to know that you'll be financially okay, that you'll be able to take care of yourself, and then you're going to have a family. You'll be able to take care of them. So, but it also, it made me giggle because I'm like, you have a huge industry and a huge space for career. AR, we talked about the conservatory. As I said, he was interested in having me teach Western voice there, and I talked to him about...

training teachers so that actually we could train teachers so that you then are giving a career to people within your own culture and country to then teach more people, right? So we're empowering layers and layers and generations. And yes, his vision was that, you know, he said he records orchestras in Poland and London and elsewhere. And so a very long term plan of saying if we start now, we could have an orchestra in this country, you know, in a

what, a couple decades. So those big visions are beautiful. And you can't have them without some expectation, right? Like here's the vision. So let's now create the possibility, let's create the journey for it and the path for it, which is very beautiful. I love India. I love every single thing I ate there. I loved...

Wendy Parr 

My experience is there, the people, I have very good friends there that I adore. I loved making music, which was also again, in its own language. Josh Winder Singh became, he works with, he's a beautiful gazal singer, and he works with Shyamana and Javed in a play called, Khafe Orme, which I'm probably not pronouncing properly. And when I was making my music there,

he became this wonderful conduit between the Western and the Eastern because, like I said, I recorded every instrument that I fell in love with. So we were doing, like, for example, we'd have the tabla player and the sitar player and the madol and some of the just even fun language, like music is universal, but there's also these funny little things. So they would record something, for example, and we'd say, OK, let's double it. And they'd look at

us with like no recognition of what does that mean? And he'd say, oh, the B side. So our language for it is double it, meaning do the same thing again, we'll double the sound. And their term was the B side. So I was like, oh, thank you, Joss. Now we can communicate. And so that just, it is, music is such a universal language and art. You know, when you're a musician, when you have family everywhere, you have kindred spirits, you have...

Really, family. Like you make music, you have an invitation into a family everywhere. And you really do connect and meet people. And it took me a minute to realize, like whenever I would fly on a plane, for example, and people ask, you know, oh, what do you do? Yeah, I'm an artist coach. I train recording artists. I would immediately get somebody's like heart open up. Oh, I sang in...

choir when I was in the fourth grade and I did this play and I did this music, I would get everybody's history around music. And we'd open up a world of conversation. Now if I, again, I didn't realize for a long time, like, oh, as soon as I say that, everybody like lights up and connects to their experience and their love of music. And maybe they start talking to me about their favorite artist or, you know, they ask me questions. And I was like, oh yeah, if I said I had a different profession, I would...

I wouldn't have had that conversation.

And that's the love of music. That's the connection all human beings have to music, to singing.

Srini Rao 

Wow. Well, what a beautiful place to bring us full circle. I have one last question for you, which I know you've heard me ask. What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable?

Wendy Parr

Beautiful.

Wendy Parr (01:15:57.899)

Oh, being true to themselves. Like knowing who they are and being true to who they are. I find that also to be just the most attractive quality. Like what is attractive about somebody? Someone who's radiating themselves.

Srini Rao 

Amazing. Well, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story, your wisdom, and dozens and dozens of poetic soundbites with our listeners. I know this because I marked, I literally marked every single one of them like, wow, this is going to make for a really good article. Where can people find out more about you, your work, and everything you're up to?

Wendy Parr (01:16:43.298)

So my website is my name, wendyparr.com. And I have some incredibly exciting things coming out in the next few months. I've been working, taking all of these things that I do with artists one-on-one, and I've created online courses. And I've been doing for the last number of years an in-person experience that's really about connecting creatives to one another. If you could think of it as like a support group meets a networking experience.

Because again, I'm really about humanity and connecting people on a real level, not on a who's in the room that could help my career, but getting to know people and who they are and their stories and experiences. And from that people connect. I'm like, you're the coolest person. We gotta hang out more. And then, two people got married. These people made a record together. So on my website, you'll find all kinds of cool stuff. And there's some really neat things coming of online classes.

Like I said that killing of the perfectionist that just aligning to find your voice being your North Star. That's called blueprint That's the first course in the pathway and really just finding I like I said I love empowering people and I think that empowering someone is helping them know themselves and listen to themselves and So that's where I'm at. That's what I've been busy doing and more coming in that direction of just empowering artists

and connecting artists with other artists to really have that family connection, that support group, that person and those people that not only can you create with, but you can also just lean on and reach out to and talk to.

Srini Rao (01:18:20.926)

Amazing. And for everybody listening, we will wrap the show with that.